Low D Whistle: Rank from "Chiffiest" to Purest?

[fiddlesticks]

Hello, I am new to whistles. I'm a classical musician (MA: violin, flute, piano) who plays in a folk band for fun. (Oh, and is it FUN!) I do primarily fiddling and Celtic-style flute but have dabbled in uilleann pipes <3 and now I'm in the market for a low D whistle.

I am intrigued by the the contrast of the traditional breathy, chiffy (more adjectives please) whistles versus the pure, flutey, sweet sounds of other whistle brands.

It would be helpful to understand the two qualities on a scale--can someone help? I'll take a stab, and perhaps you can add to it or fix my mistakes? My guess is based on sound clips and youtube videos I've researched, so your hands-on advice is most welcome. If I failed to list an important brand of whistle, it's because I haven't heard it played yet (tucking tail between legs). I know other qualities factor in (volume, octave, etc.), but let us isolate chiff vs. pure for the sake of experimentation. Thanks in advance to the wise and friendly whistlers at C&F.

??? Most CHIFFY at top and most FLUTEY at bottom:
Overton
Chiefton
Shaw
Howard
Reviol
Susato
Alba
MK
Kerry Songbird
Impempe
Abell
Burke

[Feadoggie]

Hello, I am new to whistles.

Congratulations and welcome to C&F.

I'm a classical musician

Condolances!

who plays in a folk band for fun. (Oh, and is it FUN!

Congratulations!

I do primarily fiddling

Condolances again!

Just kidding.

I'm in the market for a low D whistle.

Well the market is full of good options. You've named those I would suggest except one - Copeland. He's still around and making whistles just not in the quantities of the past. His whistle tend more to the pure and flutey end of the spectrum.

Abell does not make a low D, AFAIK. I think he stops at low G.

Another thing I would mention is that the description of the character of a whistle is somewhat subjective and it has mostly to do with the comparative experience of each player with a wide range of whistles as well as how they play. And it has a lot to do with the player's time in the saddle too. For example Susato low D's may be described by some as pure and some as being chiffy. My own experience is that the Susato has a rather open windway and can be made to sound crisp or to growl like a wolf. It's all in how you play it and want it to come out. Burkes generally get described as pure but they can have some air to their sound too.

And timbre is just one characteristic to consider in a low D. Having fun searching, shopping and buying.

Feadoggie

[Lars Larry Mór Mott]

Do yourself a favour and don't rule out the Hammy Hamilton low D. Granted, mine is up for sale, but that is NOT because i am unhappy with it, it's more of a Holy Grail.. err whistle quest.

Best of luck in any case!

[tomcat]

And don't forget the onyx. Quite nice, that one.

[AvienMael]

Michael Copeland no longer makes low D's, according to some correspondence we had with him in early 2010.

As to your low D question: My advice is to start cheap. Dixon, perhaps? It's sort of a compromise between both sounds, quite playable, and very reasonable in terms of price.

Oh, and you forgot Reyburns, and Colin Goldie. I do consider his whistles in a class of their own, when compared to Overtons, and Colin will make it sound the way you want it to sound... you need only ask.

[JTC111]

Oh, and you forgot....Colin Goldie. I do consider his whistles in a class of their own, when compared to Overtons, and Colin will make it sound the way you want it to sound... you need only ask.

I'm confused. When did Bernard Overton stop making whistles and at what point were Overton whistles made exclusively by Colin Goldie? Was there any overlap when they were both producing whistles marked Overton?

[dspmusik]

videos are helpful. i watched this video (panceltic is on here often), and decided on an MK, which i absolutely love. i also have a Kerry Optima (about 1/3 the price of the MK), and it's very nice as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD7G2C8yH0Q

[AvienMael]

Oh, and you forgot....Colin Goldie. I do consider his whistles in a class of their own, when compared to Overtons, and Colin will make it sound the way you want it to sound... you need only ask.

I'm confused. When did Bernard Overton stop making whistles and at what point were Overton whistles made exclusively by Colin Goldie? Was there any overlap when they were both producing whistles marked Overton?

Well, Bernard did pass away a couple of years ago....

Aside from that, many people favored Colin's whistles over Bernard's, for various reasons, and still do. Colin was, without any doubt, one of the reasons Overtons enjoyed as much success as they did.

[narrowdog]

Oh, and you forgot....Colin Goldie. I do consider his whistles in a class of their own, when compared to Overtons, and Colin will make it sound the way you want it to sound... you need only ask.

I'm confused. When did Bernard Overton stop making whistles and at what point were Overton whistles made exclusively by Colin Goldie? Was there any overlap when they were both producing whistles marked Overton?

Yes Colin's whistles are very good and maybe this is being a little pedantic,
he can make a whistle play how you want it to but maybe not sound how you want it to.
I think they sound like Goldie/Overtons.
Colin's been making 'Overton style whistles since 1993, then in 2009 he started making them under his own 'Goldie' name.
So yes there was an overlap, Bernard died in 2008 so about 15years.

[AvienMael]

When it comes right down to it, if the reasoning is that there is no difference between the whistles Colin made/makes, and Bernard's, then Phil Hardy's whistles are also no different. Colin made whistles under the Overton name, and now he makes them under his own. Phil, who (BTW) bankrolled the original Overton venture, and learned Bernard's method right along-side with Colin on the same day, also used to make whistles under the Overton name. I have yet to see or hear anyone make a fuss over whether or not they have a "Hardy-Overton' in their collection...

Fact is, all 3 men are/were different whistle makers, and all 3 made whistles that differed slightly from each other's - even though the original design was the same. So yes, there is a distinction to be made - and I am certainly not the first who, having owned and played all 3 of these men's whistles, has made this distinction. I certainly don't mean any offense to the late Bernard Overton, or anyone else.

Bottom line is, if you want to buy a whistle, and you start looking for an Overton, then you aren't going to find much because they aren't made any longer.

... you know, being confused and being argumentative are two entirely different things, IMO...

[JTC111]

... you know, being confused and being argumentative are two entirely different things, IMO...

Are you saying I was being argumentative?

That aside, I received an email from Brigitte at Goldie whistles and she laid out the timeline very nicely for me. I'm no longer confused ...and that's unusual for me.

[pancelticpiper]

I've been playing whistle for 35 years and I never heard the term "chiff" until I came to this site a few years ago.

I'm not saying that chiff doesn't exist, just that I was never aware of it.

I went through a process- am still going through the process- of finding the best Low D I can, for my way of playing. I've owned or tried on loan or tried on the fly most of the major makes out there.

I look at things like:

-volume (overall, and the relative volume of the registers and notes within each register)
-intonation (the relationship between the registers, and the tuning within each register)
-timbre (pure/clean v dirty/complex, focused v breathy, bright v dark, etc)
-solidity/stability/breaking point, that is, how much latitude there is to change the volume and pitch of various notes by varying the airstream without them breaking to other notes, and in particular the lowest notes in the low register
-action, that is, the nimbleness (or otherwise) in negotiating the registers, and the clarity of rapid gracenotes
-air efficiency, that is, the length of phrases which can be played on a single breath
-ergonomics

Appearance and cost are at the bottom of my list.

You might have fun reading through Medit8B1's reviews of Low Ds. I find them very helpful, as he thinks about all of these things pretty much the way I do.

Here are a couple YouTube things I did comparing various Low Ds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkL06uOtZQc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oD7G2C8yH0Q

[Tunborough]

You might have fun reading through Medit8B1's reviews of Low Ds.

... which you can find at http://pipersgrip.50webs.com/.

[killthemessenger]

I went through a process- am still going through the process- of finding the best Low D I can, for my way of playing. I've owned or tried on loan or tried on the fly most of the major makes out there

So what decision did you come to so far?

I ask because in the end - but I've only tried 3 low D's - I've decided to learn the flute to get the control over tone and volume I want. I had the MK, which was great, but the second octave was just too loud. I regret selling it, because of the wonderful tone, but I want more control.

[pancelticpiper]

I settled on the Burke initially, then a couple years ago switched to the MK.

It's loud, has IMHO the most interesting/complex timbre, and has great action, intonation, and air efficiency. I wish its Bottom D was as powerful as the Burke's; I wish the volume between the octaves was closer, in particular I wish the High B was sweeter.

Yes it's not perfect! No Low D Whistle is. Each is a collection of compromises, compromises you don't have to make with the flute. But it's the best such collection of compromises I've played.