What's the "reel" tempo supposed to be???

tomandceil · Post by **tomandceil** » Fri May 31, 2002 8:45 am

I've never measured my playing with a metyronome, but I do know that I play a lot slower than most of the musicians around Western New York. I prefer a tempo closer to the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra (i.e., stately) for my reels, even when playing Irish tunes, because I think it brings out the beauty of the melody a lot more. I *will* play faster when called upon, I just prefer not to. Of course, when you play solo, as I generally do, you can call your own shots tempo-wise. But I do like a fast polka and a sprightly jig. For that matter, I don't play all that many reels in public, which makes me unpopular at sessions!

tomandceil · Post by **tomandceil** » Fri May 31, 2002 8:45 am

I've never measured my playing with a metyronome, but I do know that I play a lot slower than most of the musicians around Western New York. I prefer a tempo closer to the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra (i.e., stately) for my reels, even when playing Irish tunes, because I think it brings out the beauty of the melody a lot more. I *will* play faster when called upon, I just prefer not to. Of course, when you play solo, as I generally do, you can call your own shots tempo-wise. But I do like a fast polka and a sprightly jig. For that matter, I don't play all that many reels in public, which makes me unpopular at sessions!

tomandceil · Post by **tomandceil** » Fri May 31, 2002 8:47 am

And hitting the "submit" button twice makes me equally unpopular on the message board . . . I do know it's metronome, I juist can't type!

Tyghress · Post by **Tyghress** » Fri May 31, 2002 12:25 pm

Of the five Irish sessions I went to, the Cork one was at a moderate pace, which translates to a wee bit faster than I was comfortable playing tunes that I didn't have down 100%. The three in Sligo were very, very fast with everthing except the tunes I started {weak grin}, and the private session was utterly leisurely, but with a spritely lift.

Coming back home, two nights ago I was looking forward to a session with tunes I knew, at a pace I could attempt. {heavy sigh} Two of the lead players were just back from Ireland themselves, psyched with new tunes and enervated by playing with their countrymen. The pace was fiery, the tunes often unfamiliar, and I decided that discretion was the better part of valor and sat out.

Phlewghtist · Post by **Phlewghtist** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 6:06 am

*shrugs* I just play what the dancers tell me to play.

That way I don't get a hardshoe to the head. That's my motivation in Irish music... NOT getting a hardshoe in the head. (Though I admit to irritating dancers at a ceili on purpose by playing first quickly then moving to dirge pace and back again several times... it annoyed the dancers, but it amused the audience.) Considering sessions in Ireland and the United States will have similar dancer-enforced proprieties, I think it depends on how skilled your dancers tend to be. I do know from experience that softshoe reel steps are nearly impossible at slower tempos.

--Piper Kilbury

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 8:40 am

Again, I was just curious since I seem to hear time and again that Americans play faster than our Irish bretheren. We don't really play for dancers at all in our sessions, and when we play ceilis, the dancers are all beginners, so it's at a slower than normal pace for obvious reasons.

But I think the next time someone says we play too fast, I'll just ask them directly what their basis is for comparison.

B~

Ciaran De Bhal · Post by **Ciaran De Bhal** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 5:40 pm

Ciaran De Bhal · Post by **Ciaran De Bhal** » Sun Jun 02, 2002 5:50 pm

Just my two cents...
There is no 'right' tempo at which to play reel, or any other tune type for that matter.
Basically, irish reels and jigs etc. were written originally for dancers to dance to. Played too fast and the dancers cant keep up, too slow and they cant dance. An CLRG (Dance Comission) has standardised and insist that dances are played at certain BPM's to im=nsure uniformity in competition. If somebody wants to trawl through their site at http://www.clrg.ie go ahead.
However as most of us don't play for dancers then these speeds do not apply.
I agree that some musicians do play too fast just to showboat, but I've noticed that only the really good musicians can keep their 'style and form' at speed and at the same time maintain the rhythmic structure and phrasing of tunes. The showboaters lose all style and seem to be of the opinion that speed equals excellence. Not so. I play in a band and am constantly reminding the other musicians to slow down. Tunes should be played with "life" and again speed does not equal life. Only after years of playing am I able to play a tune at any tempo and yet play it with life/lift/swing (delete as appropriate).
As I said, just my two cents..

Ciaran

Cayden · Post by **Cayden** » Mon Jun 03, 2002 6:03 am

Just to show how relative things are; last week the session was fairly slow[possibly due to the fact we all had played at concerts and weddings and the like], this week we had a zillion singers and dancers in all hyped up after a weekend at the Clare festival of traditional singing and in that atmosphere speed picked up considerably. And even that is still relative as I had Fintan Vallely fluting into my right ear and he obviously wanted to be even quicker than the rest of us.

LeeMarsh · Post by **LeeMarsh** » Tue Jun 04, 2002 3:13 pm

<a href=http://www.irelandsdance.com>Ireland's Dance</a> site lists the various dances and common tempos on their <a href=http://www.irelandsdance.com/informatio ... c.html>The Music</a> page.

But I agree that alot of tunes are fun to play at both slower and faster tempo. Lately I've been enjoying playing jigs at slow waltz tempos. I think it matters most that you ...

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Tue Jun 04, 2002 5:30 pm

I guess this is a horse that gets flogged in many places.

Over at Irtrad yesterday was a discussion that I thought was pertinent to this one so I am paraphrasing and joining discussion.

Someone pointed out the phenomena of "rock and roll" versions of trad, meaning well-versed trad players playing in an exciting style with much accompaniment instruments, like Solas, Altan etc. The poster thought it was actually detrimental to listen to these groups for the primary and intermediate learner who wants to be in the trad..Not only are tempos quick but the solo sounds of the fiddle or whistle are kind of buried in the other layers of instrumentation.

I pondered this for a day as I had thought similar things. Really, people are trying to sell records and driving beats sells records for certain even if they have the capacity to go up to Miltown and respectfully join in with masters at human tempos. And I think the really good players know exactly what they are doing a la Ciaran's comments.

I consider Solas to be better than rock and roll to me because the music is more interesting but I compare it as good for building energy and driving to work etc. which is what a lot of people do with rock.

At another complete plain of existence, I am very fond of what I might call "field recordings" of regional artists like the Lisseycasey compilation, the Russell family and also the fiddler solo records, like the Tommy Peoples and Tommy Potts. Nobody is trying to play electric blue violins here nor be huge international stars. Minimal recording set-up and straightforward playing. This begins a continuum that zips all the way to Donal Lunny's Journey, which has blazing Man of the House and Fairy Reel. I love that record but a guy feels like he has to drink forty cups of coffee to keep up.

And the first thing to go in the speed versions is the uneven note pattern of reels, which I incorrectly called the lilt in past posts (lilting is a vocal technique, similar to scat singing in USA). It's pretty subtle on the Lunny record on that song and some others. Yet what characterizes a reel if not that swing? It's like a point of departure and people make their choices...I really love the Liam O'Flynns Pipers Call. But I have noticed that on his medley of Drunken Landlady, the eighth notes are pretty dang equal and it borders on a march. I used to play along with it (its not THAT fast) but now I have a hard time because I really want the reel swing in my playing at all times lest I veer away from the style.

In addition to building energy and creating rock-type dynamism, there is also what I call the "spectacle" aspect of all performing. This is as ancient as performing itself. Whether its a sleight-of-hand, or sword swallowing, sometimes people are fascinated to see fingers fly and if you have that talent, well, you can attract an audience. There will always be those who question it but there are also those who haven't yet witnessed that spectacle. And having that speed does distinguish you from others who never will possess it.

I used the metaphor of the thoroughbred horse in classical guitar days. They are skittish animals but boy can they run! In the guitar world, we have just performers ("interpreters") along with a long-standing tradition of composer-performers. The pure performers often seemed more shallow than composers but were more adept,perfect and faster players.They seemed to be the equivalent of the cliches about opera singers and fashion models. You just had to settle for what you wanted in a performance.And as usual, more experienced listeners tended to favor the slower, more thoughtful composer/performers.

I think its easier as a middle-age person to appreciate the subtleties and not get dismissive and judgmental as a younger person might. I think if I was 20 and really wanted to go win some Fleadh somewhere and amaze chicks, I would ignore the old fellers (and women) because I wanted to blaze my own trail. And people will reward young stars with rapid fingers because they "know" that the performer is at that particular stage and will grow eventually.

So I would suggest that you consider the tempo and at LEAST three levels: "at home or pub" level of sincere music making as one. Another is trad artists trying to juice up the sound with more harmony and finally the out and out rock types, like Afro-Celt. You just cannot seek a definition of reel speed with this kind of variability but you are safest by listening to the first.The second is fun and challenging. The third has to be seen as using the framework of the tunes for contemporary expression, rather than any attempt at trad playing.

And as far as Americans go, it is inevitable that many of us fall into the latter two categories for a few reasons. One is that we have a long historical culture of spectacle entertainment anyway, that goes hand in hand with our winning, competitive culture. Bluegrass proves what happens when Scots-Irish fiddle tunes descend in America for a few hundred years. Its often blazingly fast.

Another is that we have sort of an ongoing rock culture anyway and frantic pace of life.

Another factor is that I don't think we are culturally predisposed to appreciate the SOLO aspect of Irish music-making and the inner pathos it engenders. We want to hear other instruments and might find field recordings from Ireland to be kind of monotonous, slow and quirky because we are pre-conditioned to want HARMONY with our solo line. That is a legacy of being an Anglo-American and classical European culture. I wonder if a lot of Irish want that harmony nowadays too, especially younger people because of pop culture.

The final point above applies not only to gross tempo, but to pitches and variability within tempos. If you have other players, you will likely use equal temperament and you better keep a straight beat - - no place for wigglin' around with a single player's emotions and feelings. Now that I have heard Tommy Potts solo, I wonder what he did with other players. The liner notes said he didn't care as much for ensemble playing...

All these things lead to fast American playing (along with others comments in thread). And as some of our sessions are complete constructs, rather than expressions of historical Irish communities, there isn't likely to be the dancing and perhaps continuity that would humble such gatherings.

Best to all. Back to the tunes!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Weekenders on 2002-06-05 02:49 ]</font>