How important is reading music?

[benhall.1]

Actually, to someone outside the trad world, looking in, it can easily seem that the trad musicians are much more hidebound and unadventurous in terms of interpretation and variation than the "classical" ones. It can easily seem that they want to produce approved performances of a rather limited and unvaried repertoire, using approved techniques, and are closed to other ways of playing that repertoire.

That's not my experience at all. The portrait you paint there, ktm, seems to me to be more like that of the host of trad wannabees that infest a fair few sessions and who just don't get the simultaneous endurance and flexibility of the music.

So - if you just want to meet the approval of the trad gurus, then by all means don't learn to read music and restrict yourself to playing in sessions.

Who are these "trad gurus" who would prefer people not to use their brains and, given that, to inflict themselves on sessions? I just don't recognise this at all. As previously said, I have many friends with whom I swap dots and use sheet music in various ways. But contrast that with the number of 'musicians' who are quite prepared to argue - sometimes quite vehemently - about the 'correct' versions of tunes based on having learnt them from dots. It's almost unbelievable that such exist, but they do. They're one of the sorts of people who get dots a bad name.

[Mr.Gumby]

Pedro Memelsdorff, Jordi Savall are just two names that come to mind of musicians who have taken a traditional repertoire (Playford and Celtic music respectively) and reinterpreted it in terms of the baroque tradition to beautiful effect.

When listening to Savall's 'interpretations' of 'celtic' repertoire the traditional player hears the re-imagining of poetry by someone who doesn't understand the language. Interesting how that works isn't it.

There's a lot to be said about variation in Irish music but I am not the one going there. Do a search, it's been covered. Many times.

[Peter Duggan]

But contrast that with the number of 'musicians' who are quite prepared to argue - sometimes quite vehemently - about the 'correct' versions of tunes based on having learnt them from dots.

How do they manage when they've got several books/sources with varying dots for the same tunes?

[killthemessenger]

That's not my experience at all. The portrait you paint there, ktm, seems to me to be more like that of the host of trad wannabees that infest a fair few sessions and who just don't get the simultaneous endurance and flexibility of the music.

I used the word "seems" intentionally, and I think you'll agree that I am making much the same point, from a different perspective.

There's a lot to be said about variation in Irish music but I am not the one going there. Do a search, it's been covered. Many times.

No thanks!

[Mr.Gumby]

No thanks!

So much for broad minded willlingness to open your ears and mind then.

[killthemessenger]

Ad personam as always, Gumby. If you have a substantive point to make, have at it. I'm happy to discuss it with you.

Personally I consider it bad-mannered to tell someone to go the library in the middle of a conversation, but standards vary.

[david_h]

When listening to Savall's 'interpretations' of 'celtic' repertoire the traditional player hears the re-imagining of poetry by someone who doesn't understand the language.

If they came back I think many musicians of the past might say the same about tunes that have been adopted into the Irish tradition.

[benhall.1]

But contrast that with the number of 'musicians' who are quite prepared to argue - sometimes quite vehemently - about the 'correct' versions of tunes based on having learnt them from dots.

How do they manage when they've got several books/sources with varying dots for the same tunes?

That doesn't seem to bother such people. But, often, it will be people who insist they're 'right' because they've learnt the tune from 'The Book'.

[Mr.Gumby]

Ad personam as always, Gumby. If you have a substantive point to make, have at it. I'm happy to discuss it with you.

Personally I consider it bad-mannered to tell someone to go the library in the middle of a conversation, but standards vary.

On the other hand, this discussion has taken place here so often the assumption the collective memory of the forum should have taken something on board isn't too far fetched is it?

[killthemessenger]

Not at all, but I think you may be under a misapprehension, Gumby. I'm not here to learn from you (or the board), unless I ask for a particular point of information, but to converse with you. If you don't wish to have a conversation, that's perfectly all right. I'm quite picky myself! But you can't take part without actually getting involved.

End of the meta-conversation.

[hoopy mike]

Season's Greetings all round.

[Mr Ed]

Is the OP gonna learn to read music? And more importantly, will he be playing a Generation or a Clarke while doing it?

Season's greetings to you too Hoopy Mike!

[AbrasiveScotsman]

Is the OP gonna learn to read music? And more importantly, will he be playing a Generation or a Clarke while doing it?

I'm gonna try, certainly. The whistle I play more than any other is a Clarke Traditional with a slight ding in it so I'll probably be playing that. The only Generation I have that is playable is a B-flat which I rarely play, or the impossibly tiny high G I bought for my 6 year old daughter which my fingers are much too fat for.

Is there some reason I shouldn't use the Clarke?

Truthfully I don't think I'm ever going to be what I would call "good" on the whistle, but I do enjoy it. I felt I was plateauing a bit in terms of the number of tunes I knew, so learning to read music might get me started again. Maybe 20-30 tunes is the limit of what my brain can hold Being able to store some of my repertoire outside of my skull might be useful....

As to all this stuff about not playing what you haven't heard etc., it is largely a moot point for me anyway. All I want from reading music is to use it to help me work out the bits I didn't understand when I heard them. It's when I hear a tune that I take a notion to learn to play it.

Really what I was getting at is I think music should be treated with respect. If you're able to play a piece well and with sincerity sound-unheard, then more power to you.

I can see I've wandered into a C&F minefield with this one though.

[benhall.1]

You still have.

Here's the bit that, possibly to your surprise, is the controversial element:

All I want from reading music is to use it to help me work out the bits I didn't understand when I heard them.

Because many of us would say that that's the thing that sheet music is not useful for.

[Mr Ed]

Is there some reason I shouldn't use the Clarke?

No, I just thought I'd add a versus question to the mix. There hasn't been enough strong opinions in this thread yet.