A picture paints a thousand words...
I've not had chance to play a V4 and a short while ago was tempted to try one,
then I had a read of stanton135's post and had a listen to his sound clips.
It gives me and probably many others a real comparison of how they perform.
Of the whistles he's played I only have the MK and really didn't like the sound of the V4.
So thank you stanton135 for the clips and if you haven't already had a listen do,
it's a nice bit of playing and might save you a quid or two.
Chieftain V-4 low D whistle tour
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narrowdog
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Re: Chieftain V-4 low D whistle tour
Happiness is taking things as they are.
Re: Chieftain V-4 low D whistle tour
I had the 4 for about a week, and it is on my way to the next person tomorrow.
I didn't like this whistle. I have an older Kerry model that Phil was closing out some time back. It uses LOTS of air, but seems to me the type of sound I thought Phil was looking for. If so, he missed the boat with this whistle, though he certainly solved the air usage well.
The mouthpiece didn't bother me at all, and I rather liked the look of it. I noticed the slightly shorter instrument at once and found the finger holes easy to cover and reach, unlike my problems with the Optima. Once the instrument was warmed up playing reels and jigs was really no problem from a fingering standpoint. When I first tried this I thought maybe I would like the instrument very well. I thought the tone hole finishing was very nice, and for the bit of half holing I tried I thought it made things easier. I think the look of the instrument is lovely and the tuning slide is very nice. We were asked not to take the instrument apart, so I can't comment about the way things were fitted together, but whatever was used seemed to work very well. The fit was tight, but clearly not from metal to metal issues.
So...what's not to like? Unfortunately for me quite a number of things please remember these are opinions YMMV:
The instrument is quite quiet, which is not a real issue in and of itself, but I was unable to get the instrument to project well. A good player of most instruments learns to get the sound to project through a room even at very low volumes. To me that ability is part of what I look for in my recorders, trumpets and whistles. I couldn't get the projection to happen with this whistle. Maybe it was there for a listener, but not for this player.
Pitch seemed controllable, but at the expense of some rather large volume changes. I felt I had to give up a solid bell tone to keep it from being quite sharp. That, along with many other things, improved as the instrument warmed up, but never went away. Count me among those who urge users to warm this whistle well. It changes more than most I've played. I found the OXX/OOO C natural rather nice to my ear, but I like it quite low. The C# though seemed very low...it bothered me greatly unless a greatly increased air flow and volume to blow it into tune. As others have noticed the shift from the low to the high octave seems bothersome. It is quite good through E and perhaps G, but as one proceeds on up the second octave the support and air speed need to be greatly increased to help the pitch raise. A, B and above were very loud and quite ugly when blown up to pitch. Adding fingers can gel that, but doing so introduces a different issue for the player. I didn't try adjusting the tuning slide to compare intonation when different notes were used as the "in tune" starting pitch (for example starting with lo D in tune vs. starting with lo G in tune vs. starting with middle D in tune etc.), and it is possible that doing that would have resolved the pitch issues.
Sound was very "windy." Someone mentioned the "rush of air" sound in a review of another instrument. That is what I'm talking about. To my ears the rush of air sound was sufficient to distract me from the sound of the instrument. I could reduce that windy sound by reducing the air flow, but then the sound of the instrument seemed very colorless to me. Readers should understand that I've many years of trumpet playing behind me, and my problem here might be as simple as trying to make the instrument do something it wasn't intended to. But I do expect a well supported sound out of my instruments, and with this one my choice was an acceptable sound that was very windy or a sound that to my ears seemed unsupported but didn't have the wind. Not a good option. My thought is that perhaps the blade was a bit to thick, but I'm not enough of an expert at all of that to have more than a passing thought.
As a final run through I played Hector the Hero on the V4, my old Kerry, a Ralph Sweet Onyx low D, an MK (pre the "pro" designation), and a Copeland. Both my wife and I placed the V4 last. I liked the Copeland best (I always seem to), and my wife liked the MK and the Sweet instruments for different reasons. I'm used to playing reverse conical bore instruments from many years of high level recorder playing, and that may be why I like the Copeland, and it may be why my wife liked the Sweet Onyx. But whatever the case the V4 just didn't seem to hang in there. My wife's decision was based on listening. Mine on listening and also on the sound the player hears, the responsiveness, and the comfort in playing. The Sweet, MK and Copeland are quite different sounds but all play very responsively. The old Kerry has still another sound, but takes enough air to be a problem for me on long phrases. The V4? Well, I couldn't get a sound I liked, nor could I manage to shape phrases as well. It was comfortable though and within the narrower range of this tune was quite easy to keep reasonably in tune. I'm sorry time didn't allow me to make recordings. I just couldn't manage it.
In sum: This instrument, like all of Phil's efforts, is very well made with great attention to detail and finish. It is wonderful that Phil makes so many very different instruments since it gives every kind of player a chance to find an instrument that fits their needs and approach to playing. This instrument did not fit me well, but the quality and attention to detail are certainly there. Someone else might like it very well.
Thanks to Phil for the chance to play the instrument, and thanks to "retired" for shepherding it through the tour.
I didn't like this whistle. I have an older Kerry model that Phil was closing out some time back. It uses LOTS of air, but seems to me the type of sound I thought Phil was looking for. If so, he missed the boat with this whistle, though he certainly solved the air usage well.
The mouthpiece didn't bother me at all, and I rather liked the look of it. I noticed the slightly shorter instrument at once and found the finger holes easy to cover and reach, unlike my problems with the Optima. Once the instrument was warmed up playing reels and jigs was really no problem from a fingering standpoint. When I first tried this I thought maybe I would like the instrument very well. I thought the tone hole finishing was very nice, and for the bit of half holing I tried I thought it made things easier. I think the look of the instrument is lovely and the tuning slide is very nice. We were asked not to take the instrument apart, so I can't comment about the way things were fitted together, but whatever was used seemed to work very well. The fit was tight, but clearly not from metal to metal issues.
So...what's not to like? Unfortunately for me quite a number of things please remember these are opinions YMMV:
The instrument is quite quiet, which is not a real issue in and of itself, but I was unable to get the instrument to project well. A good player of most instruments learns to get the sound to project through a room even at very low volumes. To me that ability is part of what I look for in my recorders, trumpets and whistles. I couldn't get the projection to happen with this whistle. Maybe it was there for a listener, but not for this player.
Pitch seemed controllable, but at the expense of some rather large volume changes. I felt I had to give up a solid bell tone to keep it from being quite sharp. That, along with many other things, improved as the instrument warmed up, but never went away. Count me among those who urge users to warm this whistle well. It changes more than most I've played. I found the OXX/OOO C natural rather nice to my ear, but I like it quite low. The C# though seemed very low...it bothered me greatly unless a greatly increased air flow and volume to blow it into tune. As others have noticed the shift from the low to the high octave seems bothersome. It is quite good through E and perhaps G, but as one proceeds on up the second octave the support and air speed need to be greatly increased to help the pitch raise. A, B and above were very loud and quite ugly when blown up to pitch. Adding fingers can gel that, but doing so introduces a different issue for the player. I didn't try adjusting the tuning slide to compare intonation when different notes were used as the "in tune" starting pitch (for example starting with lo D in tune vs. starting with lo G in tune vs. starting with middle D in tune etc.), and it is possible that doing that would have resolved the pitch issues.
Sound was very "windy." Someone mentioned the "rush of air" sound in a review of another instrument. That is what I'm talking about. To my ears the rush of air sound was sufficient to distract me from the sound of the instrument. I could reduce that windy sound by reducing the air flow, but then the sound of the instrument seemed very colorless to me. Readers should understand that I've many years of trumpet playing behind me, and my problem here might be as simple as trying to make the instrument do something it wasn't intended to. But I do expect a well supported sound out of my instruments, and with this one my choice was an acceptable sound that was very windy or a sound that to my ears seemed unsupported but didn't have the wind. Not a good option. My thought is that perhaps the blade was a bit to thick, but I'm not enough of an expert at all of that to have more than a passing thought.
As a final run through I played Hector the Hero on the V4, my old Kerry, a Ralph Sweet Onyx low D, an MK (pre the "pro" designation), and a Copeland. Both my wife and I placed the V4 last. I liked the Copeland best (I always seem to), and my wife liked the MK and the Sweet instruments for different reasons. I'm used to playing reverse conical bore instruments from many years of high level recorder playing, and that may be why I like the Copeland, and it may be why my wife liked the Sweet Onyx. But whatever the case the V4 just didn't seem to hang in there. My wife's decision was based on listening. Mine on listening and also on the sound the player hears, the responsiveness, and the comfort in playing. The Sweet, MK and Copeland are quite different sounds but all play very responsively. The old Kerry has still another sound, but takes enough air to be a problem for me on long phrases. The V4? Well, I couldn't get a sound I liked, nor could I manage to shape phrases as well. It was comfortable though and within the narrower range of this tune was quite easy to keep reasonably in tune. I'm sorry time didn't allow me to make recordings. I just couldn't manage it.
In sum: This instrument, like all of Phil's efforts, is very well made with great attention to detail and finish. It is wonderful that Phil makes so many very different instruments since it gives every kind of player a chance to find an instrument that fits their needs and approach to playing. This instrument did not fit me well, but the quality and attention to detail are certainly there. Someone else might like it very well.
Thanks to Phil for the chance to play the instrument, and thanks to "retired" for shepherding it through the tour.