Daeld wrote: ↑Fri Jan 28, 2022 10:47 pm
I went to the Oz Whistles and McManus websites and see that they are sadly no longer taking new orders. This made me wonder a couple of things:
1) Pat's design was universally loved
While I have great respect for Pat O. and his work, and I can appreciate the sentiment, that’s not really an accurate statement: Some people loved them, other people much preferred something else. I never saw O’Riordan whistles much at sessions or on stage back when they were still being made and reasonably priced, say in the 90’s. (This is where the real ITM old timers think, and rightly so, “The 90’s?? Ha! Rookie.”) Of course there were exceptions, some noteable, but it’s not like they were universally lauded among players.
The design is quite simple and surely could have been taught to someone before his unfortunate passing.
Perhaps not as simple as you believe. IIRC from my observations of the O’Riordan whistles I used to own, the windway geometry was significantly more complex than that of most whistles. It could be argued that a Burke whistle is no more complex than an O’Riordan, depending on how one looks at things, and how one works.
Certainly Pat could have taught someone else how to make his whistles if he desired to.
Couldn't Oz and McManus whistles pass on their designs? (obviously not to be mass produced but to pass it on to someone to take the reins?)
By “pass on their designs” I am taking that to mean teaching someone else how to make their whistles, because the actual designs are self evident in the end product. So, if you mean couldn’t these makers teach someone else to make the whistles and carry on the brand, perhaps they will but:
A. Roy’s website seems to indicate that he plans, or at least hopes, to get back to making whistles. Perhaps I am misreading or his plans have changed, I’m just interpreting what I read on his site the best I am able.
B. Mitch’s health issues seem to be preventing him from even making whistles, let alone training someone to make them. Training someone is more difficult and time consuming than making instruments yourself.
C. Most solo instrument makers and other craftspersons(?) don’t want other people to continue their work for one reason or another. It’s a bit unfair to compare whistle makers to artists but, would Picasso have taught someone to continue making Picassos after he quit or was gone?
Those in the arts and crafts tend to identify very personally with what they produce, they see it as a personal expression, as well as the lasting evidence and impression of their own hand. As such it’s a bit antithetical to train someone else to carry on one’s own creative endeavors, though occasionally the promise of financial reward can motivate a maker to train one or more people make their instruments and pass on the name, but this often leads to problems for one or more of the parties involved - it rarely seems to turn out as planned and years of stress, strife and financial loss can follow. I’ve seen this happen with different instrument makers and other crafts people over the years. Usually best avoided, but sometimes it can work.
A better option is for a maker to simply train others how to make whistles as they are getting to the time when they plan to retire. Pass on the skills, without giving consent to copy the design or use the name. This serves everyone better I think, at least for those makers who are interested in passing on the craft.
The only whistle maker I can think of off hand to do this was Glenn Schultz. I’m laughing as I type this for 2 reasons: 1. Glenn was a real character and his personal communications with me always made me laugh or at least smile. And 2. The way things work here on the board Paul Busman may very well post talking about Glenn before I finish my lengthy missive.
Anyway, for those who don’t know, Glenn Schultz was the maker of Water Weasel whistles, and he was a master machinist but trade. Many of the more modern whistles you may run across are either copies of Glenn’s whistles, or very close derivatives. Glenn made very high quality whistles from wood, pvc and cpvc pipe.
Glenn offered to teach me his method for making whistles, so that I would have the skills to go on my own instrument making journey. I believe Glenn saw whistle making like he saw manual machining, as a valuable and quickly vanishing skill set that should be passed on in order to be preserved. Glenn was very selfless and generous in that way, at least that was my perception from our communications.
Unfortunately I was facing a number of challenges when Glenn made his offer to me and I felt I couldn’t fly out to learn from him at that time. I thought there would be time for that in the future. Tragically, I was wrong.
The good news is that prior to Glenn’s passing Paul Busman was able to travel to Glenn and learn his method for making whistles, so the knowledge was passed on, which I imagine would have made Glenn happy. Paul would know better than I, of course.
Most whistle makers seem to quit or retire with with no interest in teaching others, which is understandable. A few have sold their business and/or trained others to make their designs. Fewer still have passed on the craft simply for the sake of preserving the craft alone.
Fortunately making whistles isn’t that difficult, anyone motivated can learn to do it. Nearly every maker is copying the makers who came before them, so “design” is rarely an issue, assuming you are copying a good whistle to begin with. The real challenge is cultivating the mindsets and skill sets required to consistently make a great instrument time after time - being really detail oriented and precise is not something everyone is good at. Frankly, I think this is the most valuable thing one craftsman can teach another, it trumps even skills and methods.
2) As invariably (1) will not happen, who has the next "Best Whistle in the World" at the moment?
I’ve nothing to offer on this, since I haven’t played many of the more recent whistles. That said, over the years we’ve gone through more of a “flavor of the month or year” than the next “best whistle in the world”, IMO. Many whistles have been “fantastic” here over the years, only to be abandoned for the next flavor a year or three later. Some often come back in vogue when the maker slows down or quits. O’Riordans, Copelands, Sindts, Oz whistles and others have swung back and forth on the opinion, popularity, and price scales over the years. No doubt that will continue and more latest and greatest whistles will show up.
Fortunately Colin Goldie keeps plugging along with his particular skill and genius. And, for the purely trad style and sound, we have the O’Briain Improved whistles, maybe the Freemans (I’ve only played one) and the Sindt’s. Can’t comment on the Sindt derivatives since I’ve never played any of them. Abell and Burke whistles are still available, no?
I guess I don’t really understand what “next best whistle in the world” is meant to mean. I don’t say that to be argumentative, I simply don’t think I know exactly what your meaning is. I certainly do think some whistles are objectively better than others in one or more ways: Craftsmanship, playability, perhaps tone (somewhat subjective, at least to a point.) However there are upper echelon whistles still being produced by active makers, so Daeld, are you saying you feel the Oz, McManus, and O’Riordan whistles are better than the ones I mentioned above, not that my list was by any means exhaustive. Just curious where you’re coming from as it’s not entirely clear from your post.