Chiff and Fipple Forums

This may belong in the flute section... but i've never posted there so here we go.

Lately i've been making fife's out of bamboo that i have... most of them have turned out pretty well except for that i can't get the second octave in the same key as the first. I'm thinking this could be cacause my bamboo pieces arn't long enough ( i'm in the process of preparing a piece that's about 2 feet long) but i'm not completely sure since i've only been making these about 2 weeks... so i guess the question is...
Am i right about the length effecting the tuning of the second octave?
and if I'm wrong how would I tune the second octave without making the 1st out of tune?

I'm not the right person to answere that really, but I'll tell you what I know. Firstly, cylindrical flutes and whistles tend to have a problem with a flat second octave. Secondly, placement of the cork affects the tuning between octaves. Seems I read in the forum somewhere that flute makers position the cork to get the low, middle, and hi D in tune as much as possible. I have a homemade flute in G that I didn't really know where to put the cork, and following that advice, I came up with a halfway in tune flute. I might have read that in a post Tipple made, I don't remember rightly. I have a flute made by him and he got around the flat second octave with a special wedge that slides into the flute, correcting it for the most part. He makes very nice pvc flutes, by the way.
You might try looking for pieces of bamboo or cane that taper down thinner toward the end. Conical instruments act differently than cylindrical bores. They tend to be in tune between octaves better.

Anyway there are others that know quite a bit more about this subject than I do. Try the search button up top. Read and figure out how to use AND, OR, NOT with your search terms. Very usefull. Several of us in here have spent literally hours searching through old post for info. I know I have.

A flute will play the same notes in both octaves if the embouchure hole and finger holes are in the right place.

I have made some excellent bamboo flutes. Here's what you should do.

Get your bamboo ready however you do it (burn it, don't burn it, whatever), cut it extra long, with a node on one end and an open other end.

Make the embouchure hole so that the center of it is one inner diameter from the node (measure with a dowel and ruler, because this is important). Work on whatever undercutting and play the flute. If it is slightly flat of some note that you think would be a good note, shorten the end (not the embouchure end) until it plays an in-tune bell note (whatever it may be).

Then, based on what you think would be reasonable hole sizes (compare to a similar whistle), go to:

http://www.cwo.com/~ph_kosel/flutomat.html

Put in the inner diameter (measure with calipers), wall thickness (also measure with calipers, and with both of these, take averages), sizes of the holes in thousandths of an inch (convert by dividing the top part of the fraction by the bottom part - as in 1/4"), and the key (from the pull-down menu - lower case letters are higher keys, D is low D).

It will tell you where to put the holes (ignore the part about the embouchure). Measure and mark it on masking tape on the flute and drill carefully.

You'll need to do some cleanup, but that's basically it.

Good luck.

I love the smell of burnt bamboo.

Cranberry wrote:I love the smell of burnt bamboo.

in the morning

Burn it? Burn the holes? Burn the insides? I just found some cane or bamboo with extra long nodes tonight. They were close out tiki torches. What the heck.

JessieK wrote:
Make the embouchure hole so that the center of it is one inner diameter from the node

Good luck.

Hey thanks alot for helping jessie... but could you explain that a little more? and i'm guessing a node is the plug between the sections of bamboo? correct me if i'm wrong.

Fopah wrote:

JessieK wrote:
Make the embouchure hole so that the center of it is one inner diameter from the node

Good luck.

Hey thanks alot for helping jessie... but could you explain that a little more? and i'm guessing a node is the plug between the sections of bamboo? correct me if i'm wrong.

Yes, the node is the natural stop in the bamboo. Measure the inside (bore diameter) of the bamboo. The center of your embouchure hole should be this distance from the node wall. The node appears on the outside in a different place than it actually is on the inside, so you'll need to use a stick or dowel to mark where the node is (on the inside) and then take the stick out so you can apply your measurement to the outside and drill (and shape) your embouchure hole. You can make a mark on the stick that is the correct distance (inner diameter) and make sure you shape the embouchure hole at the right place.

Ah yes... even in this election year, we still have the focus on the right stuff... fife, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Fopah wrote: ....i can't get the second octave in the same key as the first.

Is the second octave sharp or flat? If your emboucher hole is in the right place,and it's still not in tune with the first octave,then if it's sharp,the bamboo is too narrow for it's length (too long for it's width). If it's flat,then it's too wide for it's length (too short for it's width).

Oh,and here's something I've done that's kind of useful. If you find that the emboucher hole is too far away from the node,you can drip melted wax in,or stick a piece of blue tack in so the node is effectivly closer to the hole.

-Kelly

The formula for the distance between the inner plug face and the center of the embouchure hole is...

<b> 7 X D/6 where D is the bore diameter at the embouchure location</b>

The length of the flute should be a little shorter than 1/2 of the frequency wavelength.

<b> W = S/F where S is the speed of sound (13526.499 inches per second @ sea level and 70 deg.) and F is the keynote frequency in hz.</b>

These simple formulae and instructions for flutes and fifes can be found in a booklet by <b>Lew Paxton Price, The Secrets of the Flute</b> in the "craft manual" section at...

Http://www.shakuhachi.com

I haven't found a better or easier manual for flute making in many years of research( although there are more complex tomes ).

Hi Fopah you might try using your native Elder Sambucus mexicana (I think).
I use Sambucus nigra the common European Elder, which produces long strait shoots with easily removed soft pith. The sections are up to around 15" between knots, and have the added advantage that they are slightly conical.
Native Americans used Elder to make flutes and whistles.
http://goss.rho.net/flute/htm/brokenflutecave.htm
The ones above are 30" or so long, and there is no sign of knots.
Now and throughout winter would be the best time to collect it.

John S