Condensation and wooden whistles....

[O_Gaiteiro_do_Chicago]

I've been playing wooden whistles for quite a while, but I am wondering if there are ways to reduce the amount of condensation that builds up in the windway. I've heard of people using detergent, while others using waxed dental floss. Anyone have suggestions on what would work well for a wooden whistle with a metal cap, i.e. shultz, abell, etc....

[hoopy mike]

you need one of these:
http://www.thesumppumpguide.com/

[Mitch]

With wooden whistles, it is not advised to use detergent. It is also not advised to use any other product that is likely to penetrate the wood and de-nature the oils and resins in it. Try this:

Mix almond oil with a little pure sandalwood oil. Leave the windway end of the whistle head imersed in the mix overnight. In the morning, use a strip of cotton fabric or "chux-wipe" to gently clean the windway (not cardboard - it is too abrasive). The sandalwood is to prevent the formation of mold or bacterial colonies, the oil helps any beads of moisture to blow-through.

On top of that - allways keep the whistle warm when playing, try not to have any sugars or starches on your breath - these create deposits in the windway .. alas, even guinness - buiscuits and crisps are the worst ...

It is best practice to always remove moisture from a wooden whistle before packing it up. Swab the bore and the windway. Moisture will penetrate any wood eventually, best to not give it too much of a head-start - oil often. Cracks in the wood can occur from rapid humidification, more often cracks can occur from shrinkage as the wood dries.

Hope this helps.

[DreamOgreen]

They do sell an anti condensation fluid which is actually produced for woodwind instruments such as Recorders. I believe it's called dupenol or something like that. The only wooden airway whistle I have is a Sweetheart Laminate whistle, but that's not the same as a true wooden airway whistle.
I would agree with Mitch re. keeping the fipple warm while playing (hughly important) and clean. (also important)
I would however respectfully disagree with the oiling the windway idea. I have quite a few all wood Recorders from several manufacturers and every one of them has, in their instructions explicitly said to NOT allow any oil to get into the windway. The idea is that the wooden block should allow the moisture to absorb into the surface and not turn into beads of moisture which collect up and clog. This assumes, of course that the whistle in question has a wooden fipple block and not a synthetic one.

I have found that if one is a "dry" player. (ie no playing right before or especially after eating) and the mouthpiece is warm enough, then a properly clean airway dosn't clog much. Regarding the material used for cleaning the airway, I have used business card cardboard strips for years on my wooden Recorders with no sign of wear on the windway but I am pretty carefull about being gentle about it.

just an opinion....

[MTGuru]

They do sell an anti condensation fluid which is actually produced for woodwind instruments such as Recorders. I believe it's called dupenol or something like that.

Yep, Duponol: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=56375

I got mine from Courtly Music - $2.75 for a small bottle that lasts a long time. Less expensive than Hoopy's sump pump, I imagine.

http://www.courtlymusic.com/Accessories.html#Duponol

It works, and shouldn't damage the windway when used as directed. Moeck sells it as Anti-Condens for use on their fine wood recorders.

I have also been told not to get oil on the fipple block of wood recorders. The recorder block is often cedar, meant to absorb and dissipate moisture. Whistle blocks of a different wood may be a different story.

[brewerpaul]

I'd say yes to Duponol, no to oil in the windway.
MOST important thing is to warm that metal head fitting BEFORE you play. Hot, moist breath + cold metal=condensation.
Do NOT warm it by blowing through it as some people recommend. Think about it-- that just makes it worse.
Hold the metal fitting in your hands, tuck it under your arm, or just put it in a pocket (no keys!) for a while. Makes a huge difference.

[rhulsey]

They do sell an anti condensation fluid which is actually produced for woodwind instruments such as Recorders. I believe it's called dupenol or something like that.

Less expensive than Hoopy's sump pump, I imagine.

A tiny sump pump does have a certain charm, you must admit...and hung around the neck, who would know?

[hoopy mike]

A tiny sump pump does have a certain charm, you must admit...and hung around the neck, who would know?

Spoting a drooling whistler wearing batteries for ear rings is usually the tell-tale sign to look out for. Another moisture removal tip is only to play your whistle in an ambient temperature of over 100C or somewhere like the Sahara Desert. Eating three cream crackers before playing can help, but watch out for crumbs. Some of the more expensive whistles come with optional built in heating elements too, along with a mini bar and trouser press.

[Mitch]

...
I would however respectfully disagree with the oiling the windway idea. I have quite a few all wood Recorders from several manufacturers and every one of them has, in their instructions explicitly said to NOT allow any oil to get into the windway. The idea is that the wooden block should allow the moisture to absorb into the surface and not turn into beads of moisture which collect up and clog. This assumes, of course that the whistle in question has a wooden fipple block and not a synthetic one.

...

I stand corrected. Yes - any porous unsealed wood will probably expand a little if oiled - that may cause cracks in the surrounding wood. Also - with wooden sound blades that are not sealed or treated in any way - best not to oil those, I am told the sharp edge can de-nature over time with oiling.

Duponol. It's just me, but I've never used it. Another product that is also mostly sodium laural sulphate is dishwasher rinse-aid. That association has made me a little shy.

I suppose I should get over it and just dunk a few bits of wood in dishwasher rinse-aid for a few months and see what happens I have run similar experiments with leaving bits of wood out in the elements and in tubs of almond oil (very edifying). I'll let you know how it goes!

If I had a recorder, I would not dump it in oil .. well maybe petrol

(edited to say: If you have a wooden whistle, it is very likely that the maker included a set of care instructions - the maker will know better than anyone what is good for the whistles they make. If in doubt - contact the maker and get the best advice for your instrument.)

[brewerpaul]

Mitch-- Duponol is VERY dilute detergent and won't harm the wood at all. Makers and dealers in very high end (multi thousands of $$) use and recommend it all the time.

Regarding the blade, Glenn Schultz recommended oiling it, but only sparingly and once in a while-- much less than the rest of the whistle.
On the blades of some whistles that I make out of softer, more porous woods, I apply a thin coat of water-thin cyanoacrylate glue to both sides of the blade. This strengthens and waterproofs it: it essentially turns the blade into plastic. Works like a charm.

[rhulsey]

Michael Grinter recommends soaking the entire head of his whistles in oil for five minutes or so at a time, and yet, as Paul pointed out Glenn Schultz recommended not to saturate the blade because of possible softening. It's interesting that there is quite a difference in how whistle makers view oiling. Has anyone ever had a bad oiling experience?

Reg

[hoopy mike]

Has anyone ever had a bad oiling experience?

Yes, but I don't like to talk about it...

[rhulsey]

Has anyone ever had a bad oiling experience?

Yes, but I don't like to talk about it...

I suppose I asked for that one.

[Tyghress]

Michael Grinter recommends soaking the entire head of his whistles in oil for five minutes or so at a time, and yet, as Paul pointed out Glenn Schultz recommended not to saturate the blade because of possible softening. It's interesting that there is quite a difference in how whistle makers view oiling. Has anyone ever had a bad oiling experience?

Reg

Yep, on a Thin Weasel. End result was that Glenn told me to stop oiling the whistle entirely, it was done. Saturated. The blade was dulled and he had to reshape it.
That was a grenadilla, I believe. My blackwood whistles have never seemed to mind.