Chiff and Fipple Forums

I need help, whistle makers. I built my first whistle yesterday based off of Guido's site. The resulting whistle came out sounding very quiet and breathy. I'm going to try again today or tomorrow. My primary question... what is the best design for the lip? Should the end be pointed, rounded, or squared off?

Here's a rough drawing I did in MS Paint:


Do any of those look right?


By the way, I'm just doing this for myself. I don't have any intention of becoming a commercial maker later on.

Oh yeah, I should mention I guess that my ultimate goal would be to make a whistle that plays and sounds similar to a narrow bore Burke. The one I made sounds like a mediocre Clarke.

Thomaston wrote:Oh yeah, I should mention I guess that my ultimate goal would be to make a whistle that plays and sounds similar to a narrow bore Burke. The one I made sounds like a mediocre Clarke.

Then you need to copy that design in all details. That would be the easiest route to achieve your goal. The fipple blade or lip is just one factor. But I recommend rounding it a little for a softer, less shrill tone. If it is very sharp you get high frequency noise additions due to extra turbulence. I think this is a reason why wooden whistles and recorders have a softer tone. Because the wooden lip is by nature of the material already a bit rounded at the edge. A metal lip is quite sharp when first cut, and needs extra filing and sanding to make it a bit round at the edge, which is often not done, thereby producing a harsher tone.

Other important factors are the window dimensions and the windway dimensions.

Thomaston wrote:what is the best design for the lip? Should the end be pointed, rounded, or squared off?

Congratulations on the first whistle! And welcome to the slippery slope.

Betcha can't make just one!

First I'll start by saying that, IME, there is more to the voice than just the shape of the blade and ramp, although it's a big contributor. And what I say is pure conjecture on my part since I don't have many details on your particular whistle. But, Guido does have a lot of info pertaining to voicing on his site. So I'll assume you have gone through his site.

The blade is trying to split the airstream coming from the windway across the voicing window. If everything goes well, that creates a pressure difference between the air inside and outside the tube which sets up an oscillation in the tube. The blade doesn't have to be super sharp. Something like the third example down in your picture can work. But the ramps on your examples are quite long and shallow. I'd suggest you look at into a couple of things - a steeper ramp/shorter blade and the bevel of your fipple (I mean the plug and only the plug - that's what a fipple is, isnt it?).

I see you are in the US. and I'll bet you are not using the same pipe as Guido. Now, materials have a great deal to do with the success of following Guido's designs. It's been discussed here before - you can search on it. Are you using the ivory colored CPVC water pipe? In the low-tech whistle design, the windway height is determined by the wall thickness of the pipe used for the whistle body. Guido uses pipe with a comparatively thin wall - 1.5mm to 2mm max. I can tell you from experience that using a thicker pipe results in a breathy whistle. But there are ways to help tame that.

We can talk about the Burke head design some other time.

Cheers.

Feadoggie

Yep, it's the ivory cpvc, with an inner bore of 1/2 in. I think this is what Carey Parks uses for the Every whistle.

Unfortunately, I don't have a Burke for measuring. I've got a Mellow Dog and a Dixon Trad, and used the Trad as a template for the first one.

Thomaston wrote:Yep, it's the ivory cpvc, with an inner bore of 1/2 in. I think this is what Carey Parks uses for the Every whistle. Unfortunately, I don't have a Burke for measuring. I've got a Mellow Dog and a Dixon Trad, and used the Trad as a template for the first one.

You have mentioned, Parks, Burke, Mellow Dog, Dixon, Gonzato - whew. Why not make a Thomaston first. Every whistle out there has a lot to offer in learning to make whistles. Trying to make something that sounds like a narrow-bore Burke-ish whistle out of 1/2" CPVC is quite a task. A good whistle can be made from 1/2" CPVC as evidenced by the Water Weasels of Glenn Schultz. The whistles pictured in my avatar are made from that stuff too. I've made many, many whistles from that stuff. So where do you start. Well, you've already started! I'd suggest you go back to Guido's designs and first mimic his head design. You can get some of the breathiness under control by extending the length of the outer mouthpiece by slotting it to match the width of the voicing window and letting the collar extend along the sides beyond the blade edge to form organ ears.

Take a look at this picture, it's all I have at the moment to show you. These are efforts of mine going back seven years or more. They are made from CPVC and PVC pipe.

Look at the two heads which are touching side by side towards the left of the picture - those show the organ ears or walls I am trying to describe.

You should also re-calculate the hole spacing for your pipe versus the figures given by Guido on his site. I'd suggest using TWCalc for that.

Hope that helps keep you going.

Feadoggie

I've been making whistles à la Guido for a little over a year, with lots of failures, two or three successes, and a bunch somewhere between. I don't like the breathy sound and am always trying to get it down to a minimum. And in my experience (and it may just be me and they way I'm making them), it's the fipple block that is the key to the breathy sound. Yes, the blade can contribute to this, especially with the alto & low whistles, but if the blade is the culprit, it's a relatively easy fix - make sure it's smooth and even, and sharpen it until satisfied.But I've done that on a bunch of whistles and almost tossed them out in frustration, only to try replacing the fipple with one from my better whistles, and presto, the breathiness and weak tone are gone, or at least much reduced.

The trick with the fipple is that it can't be too big or too small, and there's a very small margin to work with on either end. An over-sanded fipple will produce too much windway height, but so, in effect, will an under-sanded one. I had thought I could save myself some sanding labor by leaving the fipple a little bigger than the bore, because the windway cut allows the bore at the mouthpiece end to have some give (I also thought this might add some Bernoulli effect, as the windway effectively widens at the mouthpiece end but stays the same at the blade end). But by stretching the mouthpiece diameter, I guess you're increasing or maybe just mis-aligning the windway height relative to the blade. I actually have no idea of the physics of it, just that through trial and error it's clear that Guido's description is exactly right: you want the fipple to fit snugly but not have to be forced. In my opinion, getting that dimension just right is the hardest part of making a whistle.

I managed to find a stick of wood at Hobby Lobby that perfectly matches the inner bore of the cpvc, so luckily I haven't had to do any sanding to get a good fit there. I'm thinking of sanding the top of the block a little to give the windway more of a D shape instead of a C shape. I figure that will increase volume, but I worry it will also increase the breathiness. I guess we'll see!

Thomaston wrote: I'm thinking of sanding the top of the block a little to give the windway more of a D shape instead of a C shape. I figure that will increase volume, but I worry it will also increase the breathiness.

If you have a D shaped profile at the exit of the windway at the voicing window it should be more breathy or weak. You could flatten the top of the block just up to end (which would still have a C shape) and that should help increase the velocity if the air. You would still want to put a slight bevel on the exit edge of the plug. There are lots of options to test and that's the much of the fun of it. Keep track of your experiments and their results. Thankfully the materials are not very expensive. Let us know when you decide you need a lathe. Good luck.

Feadoggie