Hard core?

[Brus]

Some months ago MTGuru replied to a newbie who liked Altan and the Chieftains:

You'd probably like Planxty, another seminal band. Also Solas, Lúnasa, Dervish. Maybe Cherish the Ladies, Téada, Danú. And those are all just gateways to harder core stuff.

So what is the hardest of hard-core? Mary Bergin?

[Mr.Gumby]

Not even remotely so. It's a step further but very much mainstream whistle playing nonetheless.

I wouldn't know who to suggest but there would be many traditional players, past and present that you can end up listening to/learning things from.

Players like (the late) John Killoughery would be a few steps further towards the deep(er) end.

[Brus]

Not even remotely so. It's a step further but very much mainstream whistle playing nonetheless.

I wouldn't know who to suggest but there would be many traditional players, past and present that you can end up listening to/learning things from.

Players like (the late) John Killoughery would be a few steps further towards the deep(er) end.

Hmmm. Very few google-hits on that name. Are we talking about people who haven't recorded anything and must be sought out in Irish villages so remote the inhabitants are still Irish-language monoglots? That would be cool, but impractical on a regular basis for those of us living far from Ireland.

[Mr.Gumby]

Well, your question was about what was to be considered hardcore and what not. John happened to be an interesting player with a repertoire of unusual tunes that, possibly, went back to British regimental fifers that were stationed in Ennistymon during the 19th century and older local repertoire.

If you go looking there is a bit of footage of him and his brother Paddy in Nuala O Connor's documentary 'Bringing it all back home' from the 1980s. They were stalwarts of the house dances in West Clare and traveled all over the place to play during the 1940s. Like many of the more 'hard core' (your term) music, there would be recordings circulating among musicians. I have a batch of stuff, I'll see if I can find it and maybe, if I have time, I can put up a clipeen or two.

But your question was if Mary B. can be considered the hardest hard core in whistle playing. Recommended listening has been treated here many times before, although with mixed results.

Bro Steve's Transcription page may give you a few glimpses of other things available, if you're inclined to go looking for them.

[Brus]

But your question was if Mary B. can be considered the hardest hard core in whistle playing. Recommended listening has been treated here many times before, although with mixed results.

Like this?

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=72798&p=940478&hilit=micho#p940478

Is this a reasonable list for hard- or harder-core recordings?

[Mr.Gumby]

It's a whistle discography.

It's a start. Many fine whistle players have not been recorded commercially.


Here's a nice example of nicely flowing lively playing, surprisingly modern sounding, considering the clip was probably recorded during the 1960s:

Colonel Rodgers / Happy days of youth - Mickey Cleary

Just a local player playing a tune at a friend's house. Probably more 'hard core' than your average commercial recording. Very listenable though the recording quality of Willie Clancy playing the Big Reel may make that one a bit more for the die hard listener.


It's probably best just to start becoming familiar with the available commercial recordings you like and find your own way 'in' and let what you like (or don't like) guide you rather than having other people tell you what you 'should' listen to or what your destination should be.

[NicoMoreno]

I'm just waiting in anticipation for the Gumby archives to go online

I would love to hear more of Joe Bane, and the Killourhey's (that might get a few more hits, although I have not doubt Master Gumby's spelling is more accurate), and Peadar Broe (although he's a piper).

[Brus]

It's probably best just to start becoming familiar with the available commercial recordings you like and find your own way 'in' and let what you like (or don't like) guide you rather than having other people tell you what you 'should' listen to or what your destination should be.

I've already done that. My likes include a great many of the bands listed in the first post of this thread. I've seen many of them live (Danu, Dervish, Lunasa, Teada, Solas).

I was looking for further listening, especially that which is considered "hard-core".

[Mr.Gumby]

I'm just waiting in anticipation for the Gumby archives to go online

Not likely to happen. Unless the local archive puts it up but that will probably be subscription based.

I would love to hear more of Joe Bane, and the Killourhey's (that might get a few more hits, although I have not doubt Master Gumby's spelling is more accurate), and Peadar Broe (although he's a piper).

You'll find both spellings used used. I think they were in the phonebook under 'Killoughery' and used that themselves. I have a load of stuff from them, videos too. 'Killourhy' does throw up more on google, ITMA entries and the BiaBH clip.

Haven't digitised Broe yet (no whistle there though), did do the Bane tapes though. Picked up some Bane with Bill Malley as well recently (flute/fiddle).

[NicoMoreno]

That would be absolutely lovely to hear.

I know you'll probably never put it all online... more's the pity, though. What I've gotten from you is treasured.

[ytliek]

I've already done that. My likes include a great many of the bands listed in the first post of this thread. I've seen many of them live (Danu, Dervish, Lunasa, Teada, Solas).

I was looking for further listening, especially that which is considered "hard-core".

Could you define "hard-core"? I'm not sure everyone understands it the same way.

[NicoMoreno]

I get the impression that Brus doesn't know what it means either, and is looking for examples to get a better understanding.

The way I look at it, the heart of irish traditional music is solo playing (particularly unaccompanied), so start with solo players. There's probably also an age element to it, so also the earlier the recordings the better (in at least some sense). Field recordings, private recordings, old records (78s, etc) might also apply.

Here's a track of John and Paddy Killoughery: http://www.itma.ie/digitallibrary/sound ... illourhys/ and a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSD6iUR7Cg and another track of them talking: http://www.itma.ie/digitallibrary/sound ... ning-music

[Brus]

I get the impression that Brus doesn't know what it means either, and is looking for examples to get a better understanding.

Yes.

The way I look at it, the heart of irish traditional music is solo playing (particularly unaccompanied), so start with solo players. There's probably also an age element to it, so also the earlier the recordings the better (in at least some sense). Field recordings, private recordings, old records (78s, etc) might also apply.

Here's a track of John and Paddy Killoughery: http://www.itma.ie/digitallibrary/sound ... illourhys/ and a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuSD6iUR7Cg and another track of them talking: http://www.itma.ie/digitallibrary/sound ... ning-music

Good stuff!

[Mr.Gumby]

Could you define "hard-core"? I'm not sure everyone understands it the same way.

I suppose you could say something like the Real Thing or use more or less established terms like The Pure Drop or the Raw Bar.

Non commercial, non performance music played in it's own environment etc etc.


I don't have a picture of John Killourhy handy but I have one of his brother Paddy here, from 1993/4-ish. John wasn't there that night, it around Easter time, some people didn't go out because of Lent. It was also cold, windy with occasional horizontal snow and sleet coming in from the Atlantic. The pub was high up on the back of the Cliffs of Moher, beside St Bridget's Well. Gussie Russell came in as well. The tunes were nice, I shot a film of portrait of Paddy and Gussie, they were all fine.

[ytliek]

Thank you for clearing that up. Hard-core, at least around here often refers to something completely opposite to the Real Thing or Pure Drop and usually connects with what is referred to as that general notion of celtic stuff. Maybe even so far as the "fringe".