9,000 US soldiers killed so far in Iraq?

[NicoMoreno]

So, should I do what you did to IRTrad4U and haunt you on multiple threads until you answer this?

TradR made a statement that Amnesty International was hypocritical. I asked him to explain why and provide evidence and documentation. This is very different from answering a question about what should be done concerning US military recruiters who lie use bait & switch tactics to fool people into signing up.

No it isn't. It's someone hounding someone else to answer a question. Subject matter is irrelevent.

Go ahead, repeat it. You asked me if I was joking when I summarized what I thought your conclusion was.

My answer was actually in response to something you said.

...perhaps the whole thing should be investigated and the recruiter should be held accountable. ... I think justice would be served if the recruiter was tried by an independent court, and if found guilty, the boys application declared null and void and he be allowed to return home.

Ok, so you think that this recruiter should be tried in an independent court.

Do you also agree that this logic could be extended to all recruits? Because this means that any recruit who says he has been lied to should be able to cause his recruiter to go on trial. Is this your opinion on what should happen?

What if in every single case, the independent trials found the recruiters to be innocent? (This is a "worse-case" scenario) This means that essentially every trial changed nothing. Do you think that this is a valuable use of taxpayer money?

Is there some other (cheaper) way of accomplishing the same thing? Maybe of weeding out the ones who just say they were lied to but have no proof? What happens if someone was lied to, but in fact had no proof? Is it fair that they get stuck staying in the military, while someone else goes free?

And let's say that a recruit went in and right away found out he had been lied to. But then, instead of starting the review process (or trial), he went ahead and got an education. At taxpayer expense. Then he left the military. Should he be allowed to leave without paying for his education?

[jGilder]

So, should I do what you did to IRTrad4U and haunt you on multiple threads until you answer this?

TradR made a statement that Amnesty International was hypocritical. I asked him to explain why and provide evidence and documentation. This is very different from answering a question about what should be done concerning US military recruiters who lie use bait & switch tactics to fool people into signing up.

No it isn't. It's someone hounding someone else to answer a question. Subject matter is irrelevent.

TradR has been very rude in his assaults for the material I present, my sources, and my opinions. He has been pompous and arrogant to the point of nausea. He painted himself into a corner with his ridiculous statement about AI being hypocritical and I had a bit of fun with it. I think after the abuse he has leveled at me since I came to this message board I deserve at least that. I’m hoping TradR might be eating a bit of humble pie and he’ll return and be a bit more reasonable and less obtuse – but I’m not holding my breath.

[NicoMoreno]

TradR made a statement that Amnesty International was hypocritical. I asked him to explain why and provide evidence and documentation. This is very different from answering a question about what should be done concerning US military recruiters who lie use bait & switch tactics to fool people into signing up.

No it isn't. It's someone hounding someone else to answer a question. Subject matter is irrelevent.

TradR has been very rude in his assaults for the material I present, my sources, and my opinions. He has been pompous and arrogant to the point of nausea. He painted himself into a corner with his ridiculous statement about AI being hypocritical and I had a bit of fun with it. I think after the abuse he has leveled at me since I came to this message board I deserve at least that. I’m hoping TradR might be eating a bit of humble pie and he’ll return and be a bit more reasonable and less obtuse – but I’m not holding my breath.

Sure, he has been rude to you. Does that give you the right to do the same? If you say, yes, well, don't bother claiming to be one for civil discourse, because unless you rise above it, you aren't any better.

Anyway, I'm sorry I brought it up.

[jGilder]

Ok, so you think that this recruiter should be tried in an independent court.

Do you also agree that this logic could be extended to all recruits? Because this means that any recruit who says he has been lied to should be able to cause his recruiter to go on trial. Is this your opinion on what should happen?

Yes, I think that when it's a life and death issue like signing your life over to the military that the recruiters must be held accountable if they use fraudulent tactics. If this was properly pursued then we wouldn't see people being fooled into enlisting.

What if in every single case, the independent trials found the recruiters to be innocent? (This is a "worse-case" scenario) This means that essentially every trial changed nothing. Do you think that this is a valuable use of taxpayer money?

If they found that out, or if it was proven that they lied -- either way, it's an exellent use of taxpayer money. How you feel about it might reflect the value you place on human lives. Many expenses are justified when a human life hangs in the balance -- why wouldn't it here as well?

Is there some other (cheaper) way of accomplishing the same thing? Maybe of weeding out the ones who just say they were lied to but have no proof? What happens if someone was lied to, but in fact had no proof? Is it fair that they get stuck staying in the military, while someone else goes free?

I would hope that an independent entity would investigate these cases before they came to trial. But if the military investigates itself -- we already know how that always washes.

And let's say that a recruit went in and right away found out he had been lied to. But then, instead of starting the review process (or trial), he went ahead and got an education. At taxpayer expense. Then he left the military. Should he be allowed to leave without paying for his education?

It would have to be reviewed and decided case by case I suppose. But to claim that the process would be too bothersome or costly would cheapen the value that the US military places on human life. I certainly wouldn't trust the military with mine given their track record.

[jGilder]

Sure, he has been rude to you. Does that give you the right to do the same? If you say, yes, well, don't bother claiming to be one for civil discourse, because unless you rise above it, you aren't any better.

Anyway, I'm sorry I brought it up.

Teasing him about getting his homework done is a far cry from the kind of abuse I was getting. I don't know if I was "rising above it," but I was having a little fun all for a good laugh. I think TradR could even see that.

[IRTradRU?]

And the paranoia goes untreated.

Shame.

[dubhlinn]

I was in on that bit of banter and I never considered myself - or the Commie Gilder - paranoid.
Gilder asked for a reasoned argument concerning your opinion of AmnestyInternational...that's all.

Slan,
D.

[jGilder]

And the paranoia goes untreated.

Shame.

Ah... there he is. How's the homework coming TradR?

[IRTradRU?]

See what I mean?

Untreated.



Tsk.

[dubhlinn]

I'd settle for Trads definition of Paranoid

Slan,
D.

[jGilder]

See what I mean?

Untreated.



Tsk.

"He may look like an idiot and talk like an idiot but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot." - Groucho Marx

[s1m0n]

Gilder asked for a reasoned argument concerning your opinion of AmnestyInternational...that's all.

I think at this point it's safe to assume that IR can't back up his opinions, and let the matter drop.

[dubhlinn]

Gilder asked for a reasoned argument concerning your opinion of AmnestyInternational...that's all.

I think at this point it's safe to assume that IR can't back up his opinions, and let the matter drop.

Agreed.Time to move on...

Slan,
D.

[jGilder]

Gilder asked for a reasoned argument concerning your opinion of AmnestyInternational...that's all.

I think at this point it's safe to assume that IR can't back up his opinions, and let the matter drop.

Yea, I suppose you're right.

[Denny]

Gilder asked for a reasoned argument concerning your opinion of AmnestyInternational...that's all.

I think at this point it's safe to assume that IR can't back up his opinions, and let the matter drop.

Yea, I suppose you're right.

IR quick, blame it on the dog!