Chiff and Fipple Forums

peeplj wrote:

Cranberry wrote:

peeplj wrote:I've never actually heard of that happening.

That's because when obese animals are killed and eaten, they don't write accounts of it.

No, I mean what species?

Birds.

peeplj wrote:Who observed it?

Me.

peeplj wrote:Basically, if you're read about such an event, where did you read it?

I saw a fat robin get attacked and nearly eaten by a squirrel. If she had not been fat, she wouldn't have been so assaulted.

Hmmm...I notice you said "nearly" eaten. I presume the chubby bird escaped unharmed?

I'm curious, Cran: what is the normal weight range for a robin, and how much overweight would you have estimated this bird to be?

I didn't know you were a bird expert: please share your background with us.

--James

peeplj wrote:Hmmm...I notice you said "nearly" eaten. I presume the chubby bird escaped unharmed?

I'm curious, Cran: what is the normal weight range for a robin, and how much overweight would you have estimated this bird to be?

I didn't know you were a bird expert: please share your background with us.

--James

It was only nearly eaten because the squirrel, bless its heart, was obese as well and couldn't move fast enough. I can't say if the bird was "unharmed," though. It was probably harmed at least slightly because it lost feathers and had the squirrel's potentially rabid yellow claws and teeth sunk into its flesh.

The normal weight range of a robin is from 3/4 that of a baby magpie up to around 1 and 2/17 that of two adult sparrows. This particular robin weighed at least as much as half a pheasant.

Cranberry wrote:

peeplj wrote:Hmmm...I notice you said "nearly" eaten. I presume the chubby bird escaped unharmed?

I'm curious, Cran: what is the normal weight range for a robin, and how much overweight would you have estimated this bird to be?

I didn't know you were a bird expert: please share your background with us.

--James

It was only nearly eaten because the squirrel, bless its heart, was obese as well and couldn't move fast enough. I can't say if the bird was "unharmed," though. It was probably harmed at least slightly because it lost feathers and had the squirrel's potentially rabid yellow claws and teeth sunk into its flesh.

The normal weight range of a robin is from 3/4 that of a baby magpie up to around 1 and 2/17 that of two adult sparrows. This particular robin weighed at least as much as half a pheasant.

I understand.



--James

I know you do.

Well, should you ever get any actual information, please share it here, as you have raised an interesting question which obviously neither you nor I have enough expertise to answer accurately.

--James

peeplj wrote:Well, should you ever get any actual information, please share it here, as you have raised an interesting question which obviously neither you nor I have enough expertise to answer accurately.

--James

I thought we had an ornithologist around somewhere. I'm certain that too-fat animals get killed and eaten though. I don't know how I am certain, but certain I am.

Cranberry wrote:

peeplj wrote:Well, should you ever get any actual information, please share it here, as you have raised an interesting question which obviously neither you nor I have enough expertise to answer accurately.

--James

I thought we had an ornithologist around somewhere. I'm certain that too-fat animals get killed and eaten though. I don't know how I am certain, but certain I am.

I understand...but for all your certainty, you still could be wrong.

As could I.

--James

peeplj wrote:

Cranberry wrote:

peeplj wrote:Well, should you ever get any actual information, please share it here, as you have raised an interesting question which obviously neither you nor I have enough expertise to answer accurately.

--James

I thought we had an ornithologist around somewhere. I'm certain that too-fat animals get killed and eaten though. I don't know how I am certain, but certain I am.

I understand...but for all your certainty, you still could be wrong.

As could I.

--James

There are plenty of obese cows and goats and chickens on farms in captivity. Put them out into the wild and see what happens. They get eaten. That's what I think happens if a wild cow, goat, or chicken becomes obese. It seems logical to me.

Put a skinny farm animal out in the wild, and guess what fate it shares with its chubby counterparts?

--James

peeplj wrote:Put a skinny farm animal out in the wild, and guess what fate it shares with its chubby counterparts?

--James

But that still doesn't justify being a five hundred pound mouse or a two ton goldfish.

Nothing does.

peeplj wrote:

jim stone wrote:I disagree. So does the
American Heart Association and the American College of
Cardiologists. I'm not for judging anybody on physical traits,
of course, and I certainly wasn't judging my brother-in-law.
Which is why I didn't talk to him about this for years. He thanked me,
by the way, and has since taken meaures to reduce
his weight and to work less hard.

I don't think one does anyone any favors by denying this:
the risk of heart attack for men in early middle age from
being overweight is real, and vastly outstrips whatever risk
(so far undocumented, to my knowledge) of heart attack
from being judged by everyone on the basis of such an insignficant
physical trait. The latter may make one miserable, but, to
my knowledge, there is no correlation with heart disease.

In an odd and ironic twist of fate, I find myself quoting the Christian apologist C.S. Lewis:

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."

--James

Edited: on reading my post I discovered I had quoted the wrong post from Jim. My bad, fixed now.

C.S. Lewis is great.

I like C. S. Lewis too. But, you know, I'm not
tormenting anybody. I don't think people should be
oppressed or tormented because they are fat, anymore
than because they are dark skinned.

Pointing out that for certain classes of people, obesity
is dangerous isn't oppressing or tormenting anybody,
it's just true. Walden appeared to imply that the
the risks of heart disease from being judged
because you are fat are as significant as those
from obsesity. That's not true, to the best of
my knowledge. Pointing this out doesn't make
me a moral busybody, obviously.

Do you think I
was oppressing my brother-in-law? He didn't.
He told me how afraid he was. He was much
relieved to talk about it. I don't go around telling
this sort of thing to people, but I love this guy.
The last thing he wants is to die
before his children. My 42-year-old father died suddenly
before my eyes when I was seven, significantly
because he was obese. I remember it vividly.
Don't knock it till you've tried it.

The truth is the truth--not to be blurted out willy nilly,
of course, but it's a mistake to deny it and another to
suppose that there is never an appropriate time or place
to speak it. I have never before or again said this
to anybody. The tyranny of those who wish to help us
sounds like something awful, but those who, thinking they see it everywhere, deny the dangers, are doing
nobody any favors, IMO.

Jim, no offense, but that's exactly what I mean.

That's exactly why that quote is so appropriate.

--James

I'm baffled.