Chiff and Fipple Forums

Hi to everyone.
I'm new of the website, and I have two questions: I'm not able to understand the effective dimensions of an octave mandolin if compared to an Irish Bouzouki. Has anyone got an explicative photo with the two instruments?
The second question is the following: can I tune a mandola from CGDA to GDAE, like a mandolin (obviously, changing strings' gauges)?
I'm sorry for my awful English...

McCormack

Welcome. So far, your English could stand as an example to a lot of us native speakers.

Here's a comparative pic from the Tobin Instruments website (I have no commercial interest in this site and I very happily play a Foley, myself; comparative pics have proved hard to come by!):



Left to right: either a mandolin or mandola (I'm guessing mandola; looks a little large for a mandolin next to the others, to me, but I could be wrong), either an octave mandolin or a mandola (I'm guessing octave mandolin), a short-scale Irish bouzouki, a long-scale Irish bouzouki, and a cittern.

Hi, and welcome!

Yes, you can change a mandolin from GDAE tuning to CGDA with appropriate strings, but not all instruments respond well to that. I think it's important to discuss it with the maker of a particular instrument first. There are even 10-string mandolins that are tuned CGDAE to combine the range of the mandolin and mandola. These are, of course, specially built for the purpose. Similar changes are possible with the octave mandolins, the bouzoukis, and citterns. But those vary according to their design as well, so always check with the manufacturer or at least a knowledgeable dealer if possible. Another important change to consider is unison versus octave tuning. In unison tuning, the strings of each pair of bass strings are tuned to the same note. In octave tuning, one string of each bass pair is tuned an octave higher than the other, similar to a 12-string guitar. The treble strings are unison (identically) tuned in either case. It requires a minor modification to switch between tuning systems.

Yeah, I agree that talking to the maker is important. I wouldn't change tunings if they're divergent from the prescribed norm by more than roughly a full step, myself. But maybe I'm just overly cautious. The maker should know a particular design's tolerance for that sort of thing.

I once bought a modern-style cittern at a distributor not to be named here, and the apparent ignorance of the staff was revealed in that they had tuned it not from D, but from G!! It was a Moon brand cittern and thus built like a tank, but all the same my alarm knew no bounds. They were wondering why strings kept breaking on it. I re-strung and retuned that baby right away. Yes, sir.

I think we can't say this too often. The world of the mandolin and mandolin-like instruments is a very complex and confusing one. It's always best to get the very top information from the most direct and knowledgeable source possible. While there are many experienced players here, another good reference is mandolincafe.com

For reasons no one quite knows, North Americans and Europeans have different definitions for mandola.

I always thought the Europeans had it right, as they had it first. Then Orville came along and made a consort of mandolins named after the violin quartet.

A side by side photo does not really tell how the instruments handle differently.
I always thought scale length is a good indicator.
The maker on the website mentioned above (Tobin) gives these figures for his instruments:
Bouzouki: 65 cm
Octave mandola: 58 cm
Tenor mandola: 50cm
Large mandolin: 36 cm

My own octave mandola (Button) has the same scale length of 58 cm.
That is about the same as a standard classical guitar, or a cittern.
Since the tuning is in fifth to play melodies one need to stretch to the fifth fret, which is okay for large hands with such a scale length, but difficult on a bouzouki with 65 cm scale length. Therefor bouzoukis are used less for melodic play and more for harmonic (chordal) accompaniment. at least that's what I thought, please correct me if i 'm wrong!

When I bought my mandola I went through a year of string experiments (without consulting the maker, I bought it from Hobgoblin) and settled on much finer gauged strings with a tuning of C-G-D-A, i.e. effectively I got now a tenor mandola with a large scale. Probably maker's advice might have helped me, but I was quite careful not to get strings too tight. The top string pair is now gauge 8, very thin, and a lovely bright sound. With a capo on the second fret the lowest string is D, and I got an effective scale length of 52 cm, close to the tenor mandola, and very comfortable to play melodically.

Thank you! Your posts are very kind and useful.
Hi,
McCormack

hans wrote:Therefor bouzoukis are used less for melodic play and more for harmonic (chordal) accompaniment. at least that's what I thought, please correct me if i 'm wrong!

I personally know only one guy - only one - who uses his 'zouk for tune melodies mostly if not exclusively, and tunes GDAE, which makes sense for that if melody's all you're after. There are backup 'zouk players, though, who use melodic runs and countermelodies as an accompaniment method in addition to simple chordy stuff; a beautiful effect that I would do well to develop if I weren't so lazy. Alec Finn for one comes to mind for that, and while he plays the Greek instrument, the scale is roughly still the same as the long-scale Irish beast. Michael Holmes of Dervish is another such. But, as you say, they and their kind may be exceptions.