Frankie Kennedy and Matt Molloy playing styles.

[lesl]

There's a set of mazurkas (I think one of them is shoe the donkey); the second one is in A, and he sure seems to be playing down to the low B. ....

It's probably the "aural illusion" ...

I came across that last night too - in one of the barndances. Fingering it, you could tell you'd jump up to the higher B but I really had to plaster my ear to the speaker before I could hear that higher B.

Funny to have no argument from Cat on this re style - I havent heard JS live since a few years now, so assumed she'd set us straight here.. however I guess his point of repetition has truly burnt the sound of his flute into my mind!

John K thank you also for your heart-rending story which included the Good Dr. Claudy's involvement .. I also read last night some of the accounts on the web which came out around the time of the obit and it is just so gut wrenching.

And again thanks to all so far, this is really enlightening.

Interesting point of Craig's about fleshing out the style some more. Aaron said:

Frankie's playing doesn't sound ornamented but it is. They are more articulations than ornamentations.

Yes, anyone for continuing on from there? I'll be trying to hit the slowdown button tonight myself.

[bradhurley]

Interesting point of Craig's about fleshing out the style some more. Aaron said:

Frankie's playing doesn't sound ornamented but it is. They are more articulations than ornamentations.

Yes, anyone for continuing on from there? I'll be trying to hit the slowdown button tonight myself.

I don't mean to be monopolizing the responses here, but anyway my 2 cents on his style is that the apparent simplicity you're hearing is mainly due to the fact that he was matching his flute style to Mairead's Donegal-style fiddling. When on the other hand he played tunes like Ambrose Moloney's in the clip I posted, you can hear that he was quite capable of using more ornamentation...I sure felt like there were traces of Molloy in his playing there, especially in the mini-crans on the second-octave D and his heavier use of rolls in the turn.

[Cathy Wilde]

That's a fine point but a good one -- I suppose we shouldn't generalize things like "his playing" when Frankie's playing was probably whatever the tune demanded (to me, that's the mark of a truly great player). The playing of his that I know is with Mairead, but like you say, and as evidenced in your clip, there were probably multiple shades of Frankie.

FWIW anent ornamentation, his cranns on 'King of the Pipers' are in my Top 5 favorite cranns of all time. ... Yep, that's how nerdy this girl is!

However ... articulation, breath pulse, etc. ARE forms of ornamentation, aren't they?

(oh wait, that's probably another thread)

[johnkerr]

Let me co-monopolize then, to take some heat off Brad. The Donegal repertoire doesn't really lend itself to a lot of the usual flute ornamentation, which might be another reason Frankie played differently with the band than he did by himself. Although Donegal fiddlers do play rolls, their main ornament is the bowed triplet - an ornament that doesn't exactly transfer cleanly over to the flute. Also, it occurs to me now that even though there are many well-known Ulster flute players, the ones I can think of other than Frankie are mainly associated with Belfast rather than Donegal. I'm thinking here of players like Harry Bradley, Gary Hastings, Tara Diamond (she's from Belfast, right?), etc. Frankie of course was from Belfast as well, but he picked up the Donegal connection from Mairead.

[Cathy Wilde]

An interesting example of exactly what I think we're talking about, and sort of what I'm *trying* to talk about, is Frankie's track on WFO1, Disk 2. 'The Cat That Ate The Candle/Over The Water To Bessie' are full of letter-perfect rolls and flips and turns and triplets, but they don't really call attention to themselves as such -- they serve only enhance the tune and the phrasing, never getting in the way of the pulse or the melody. In each case, I think you can hear the man doing exactly what's right for the tune -- that's the case I was trying to make, anyway.

FWIW, his approach to those two tunes is quite different from his approach to 'New Ships A Sailing' (wonderful drive and lift aside, of course).

HOWEVER, a couple of considerations/questions .... 1) solo playing vs. ensemble playing and how different they are by necessity; and 2) what about his own progress as a flute player? Did he get more ornamented as he played longer? Or, did he start simply, get more ornamented, then strip things back down?

Or was he indeed a player of fabulous taste as well as great ability (as I aver)?

I wouldn't be surprised with him mirroring Mairead's fiddling style -- fiddles are it in Donegal as I understand. I can't think of any Donegal flute players off the top of my head ....

Plus, when the main person you play with has a certain style, how can you not be influenced by it? From personal experience .... in my first flute lesson John told me I needed to learn to play more like a flute player and less like a fiddle player (my fella is a fiddler).

(Let me tell you, THAT'S been a journey.)

As for any other border/Northern players ... Marcas O Murchu is from Belfast, Turlach Boylan is from around Derry, and then of course there are the border guys like my beloved John McKenna from Leitrim.

Sorry for the dog's breakfast of thoughts -- it's all your fault, Lesl!

xoxoxo,
cat.

[johnkerr]

Don't know how I forgot to mention Marcas O Murchu as a Northern player, especially since I spent a great week in class with him at Augusta in 2000. Interestingly, though, even though he has his own unique style Marcas has really latched onto the playing of the classic Galway/Roscommon/Leitrim flute players such as Vincent Broderick, Josie McDermott and John McKenna, all of whom he emphasizes greatly in his teaching.

[packie]

Bradhurley,

I'm very interested in the lovely mp3 clip you provided. How did you come by it? Were you at that concert yourself? Do you know what the year and venue was?

TIA!

[bradhurley]

Bradhurley,

I'm very interested in the lovely mp3 clip you provided. How did you come by it? Were you at that concert yourself? Do you know what the year and venue was?

TIA!

No, I wasn't at the concert; it's from a tape that a friend gave to me years ago. He's an old friend of Daithi Sproule's so he may have gotten it from Daithi, or he may have made the tape himself. I don't know the exact date or venue but I'd say it was in the mid 1980s (probably 84 or 85), as Frankie refers to their album during the concert and refers to it in a way that suggests it was the only album they had done at that point, meaning it was between Ceol Aduaidh and the subsequent "Altan" album. Indeed I'm not even sure it was recorded in Minneapolis; that was my recollection but it might be because Frankie was talking about having been at Daithi's house the evening before, and Daithi was living in Minneapolis at the time (and is back living there again now, as it happens.) Sorry I don't have more details.

[lesl]

I haven't been able to get "Harvest Storm" away from Bill's car yet (just goes to show eh..) but I listened on slodown to the Cat-Candle set and also several specific things - Ambrose Moloney's, and Father O'Grady's Visit to Bockagh (from the middle of the Three Scones of Boxty set, called there McDermott's), and the slow and faster reels coming before the Gravel Walks, and also the Gravel on slowdown (now that was interesting!).

Wish I could be more articulate about what I heard. Its brilliant to listen to. So far I think even in the duo tunes and full band, from what I could hear, he was mostly playing the same way as when solo. You hear little things all over, breath articulations and those d crans, triplets, cuts and rolls, etc. It is true that he was note for note with Mairead but also always flutey while doing that. At the same time none of it is over-ornamented. Everything I heard served the tunes themselves and in fact as the music slowly went by I was surprised how nothing "stood out" to me - ie it was the tune that stood out, not some pyrotechnic. On the Gravel Walks, I noticed more of a Bothyband type of thing where the flute became *more* ornamented, weaved in and around the melody with rolls and variations, at times there were rolls that lasted 2 1/2 bars long!

In slowdown I was sometimes reminded of the slow-down sound of Catherine McEvoy, also of Conal O'Grada sometimes. Anyone feel free to differ (and please do - this is only my first listen!). Not that these players are actually similar, but the more Northern styles stand out to me since they are so different to the Galway/Clare sound. Places where I would normally expect to hear a finger cut, I heard breaths and glottals as the alternative. That sort of thing. I was particularly reminded of Catherine McEvoy in the phrasing. (having dissected her playing of Dan Breen's not too long ago, as well as the ny workshop tracks) Anyway, also I heard some bent notes matching same from the fiddle - I would think he learned a lot of the tunes from either Mairead or her same source, but the style still sounded very flutey.

I wonder from whom he learned the flute when he was starting out and ramping up to what we can now hear. On page 2 Brendan mentioned in Glenavy he picked up a tune from Robert Cinnamon - a flute player? Interesting - reading the wiki entry now - doing the math, at the time of Ceol Aduaigh, Frankie had been playing flute maybe only 10 years if that.

edited to add: I guess this thread ought to now be just called Frankie Kennedy playing style..

[Cathy Wilde]

Don't know how I forgot to mention Marcas O Murchu as a Northern player, especially since I spent a great week in class with him at Augusta in 2000. Interestingly, though, even though he has his own unique style Marcas has really latched onto the playing of the classic Galway/Roscommon/Leitrim flute players such as Vincent Broderick, Josie McDermott and John McKenna, all of whom he emphasizes greatly in his teaching.

Thanks for the illumination, John!

Interesting -- I didn't realize that three of my No. 1 Favorite Living Players (Marcas O Murchu, Tom Doorley, & John Skelton) all strongly appreciate Vincent Broderick (Doorley studied with him too, I believe) -- aha, it's all coming clear!

And then there's Patsy Hanly from Roscommon ..... And finally, one of my all-time favorite unsung heroes ... Liam Kelly. That man is a monster!

Anyway, I've been trying to figure out all this style stuff for a long time, and it still evades me ... but from this and other things I've read, it seems to be the Sligo/Leitrim/Roscommon & "northward" playing that I'm most strongly latching onto.

P.S. Two other Belfast players: Davy McGuire and Frances McPeake (tho' I think he's primarily a piper, I wouldn't mind being able to play like him!). Also, Hammy Hamilton was originally from Belfast as I recall.

Again, thanks! This is a fun thread.

[brendan]

To answer your quistion lesl, as far as I know Robert Cinnamon was a local framer who was a lovley singer and played a bit of the mouth organ. I never met the man, and know that his family do not live in the area now.

Dobbins flowery vale is a song I belive from Co. Armagh, but theres a few flute players round Glenavy now and because Frankie mentioned it on the cd cover we like to think its a sort of anthem for the village....

If i can figure out how to post tunes on here I will stick it on for the crack but my computer skills is as good as my spellingk.

[AaronMalcomb]

I remember reading a Paul McGrattan interview in which he mentioned starting to learn more Donegal tunes (from playing with Paul Ó Shaughnessy?). So, not a Donegal flute-player but another player taking interest in the Donegal music.

As for listening to Conal Ó Gráda and Catherine McEvoy on Slow Downer, I hear the same thing, so many breath and glottal accents... very flutey (whereas the rolls and crans may be more pipery). Conal can be a bit tough to snatch tunes from on the Slow Downer because of his tone. He pushes it so hard that you can't make out the notes through the all of the harmonics. Catherine's tone is rich in harmonics too but maybe not quite as "dirty" as Conal.

Cheers,
Aaron

[Cathy Wilde]

On the Gravel Walks, I noticed more of a Bothyband type of thing where the flute became *more* ornamented, weaved in and around the melody with rolls and variations, at times there were rolls that lasted 2 1/2 bars long!

Dang, I have GOT to figure out why Slowdowner keeps hanging up my computer.

Hey, Lesl, I was wondering .... were those 2 1/2-bar rolls the C-natural ones (or what are C-naturals in the key we play it in, anyway) on the D part of the tune? That's so cool; I always thought they were some sort of tongued/cut repeated 8th notes or something (no Slowdowner and working from memory long ago, here) -- and I always thought they were such an interesting workaround for all the fiddle-y stuff that part has in it. Anyway, if they are rolls, WOW, what a DUDE! That's just beastly.

Once again, this is fun. Thank you for starting this thread! I'm really appreciating the closer listening to a flute player I've hardly studied at all. And I'm very grateful for everyone's patience (at least your outward patience!) with my blatherings as I try to learn and sort things out.

P.P.S. iTunes does have the Frankie & Mairead duo CD -- I downloaded a few tunes from it yesterday. If Frankie knew he was serenading someone who was shoveling horse poop and poulticing hoof abcesses .... Thanks again, everyone!

[johnkerr]

After all this talk here of Frankie Kennedy I decided to dig out and listen to my Altan CDs, which I haven't done for a while. I have the first Mairead and Frankie album on CD, but the first two Altan albums (Altan and Horse With A Heart) I have only on vinyl so I haven't gotten to them. But The Red Crow, Harvest Storm and Island Angel I have on CD, so those I've listened to as well, which runs up through Frankie's untimely death in 1994. Based on this, I have some observations on what's been discussed so far.

First, as to the flute Frankie is playing: The sleeve notes on Harvest Storm (1992) have him playing Wilkes flutes in D, Bb and F. So, Lesl, you said some of the tracks seemed high-pitched when you tried to play along. Those are probably the ones he played the F flute on. The notes don't say which flute is played on which tracks, but knowing what the flutes were on the CD would probably be enough to figure it out. (If he's playing on Humours of Westport - kind of hard to tell on a cursory listen - he's probably using the F flute there, 'cause that tune is in F. Just call me Sherlock...) By the time of Island Angel (1994), the sleeve notes list only the Wilkes Bb and Patrick Olwell D flutes, so that fits in with my speculation that Frankie hooked up with Patrick at our DC festival in 1992.

As to how and when Frankie got started on the flute, the book Blooming Meadows by Fintan Vallely (cited somewhere up there in this thread, I think) says that Frankie wasn't playing anything until he started going out with Mairead. She was 15, he was 18 then, which would put it probably in the mid-1970s. They did the first duo album in 1980 or '81 I think, so really he hadn't been playing all that long at that time. My guess is that rather than learning from some one particular person, he fell into the Belfast session scene with the likes of Tara Bingham and just absorbed it from there. In listening to that first CD now in comaprison with the ones he did nearly a decade later with the band, of course I see growth in his playing over that time, but nothing jumps out at me in terms of "Oh, now he's doing this or that that he wasn't doing before." His playing just grew, as I would hope all of ours would over time. Obviously, though, he had a rare talent for the music, picking it up relatively late as he did yet going so far in really not all that much time.

As for playing differently with the band than he did solo, I think your detailed listening is proving that he didn't - he played pretty much the same all the time. (Again, that's something I think any of us would do, so it's not all that surprising to me.) I think if his playing seems different with the full band, it's probably because a lot of the lovely little bits are getting lost in the mix (so to speak) with all the fiddles and accompanists playing full tilt. If anything, he probably adjusted his playing techniques to fit particular tunes, since as I've said before lots of those tunes aren't great flute tunes. The Gravel Walks that you cite is definitely one that isn't, especially at speed, so playing a really long roll over several bars might be the flute player's best choice at times in that tune - and doing so works in a band setting, but obviously not solo. So sure, he did stuff like that.

Robert Cinnamond was a singer who came often to Frankie's house when he was growing up (again according to either the sleeve notes or the Blooming Meadows book, I forget which) and it's from his singing that Frankie got the air Dobbin's Flowery Vale that he played on the Bb flute at the end of the Harvest Storm CD.

[johnkerr]

I remember reading a Paul McGrattan interview in which he mentioned starting to learn more Donegal tunes (from playing with Paul Ó Shaughnessy?). So, not a Donegal flute-player but another player taking interest in the Donegal music.

Paul McGrattan, another powerful flute player who I've been privileged to spend a week with at a summer school, is an interesting case stylistically. He grew up in Dublin, and one of his teachers in school was the great Kerry accordion player Brendan Begley, who he now plays with in Beginish. So Paul has the Kerry repertoire of polkas and slides, and does a great job of them on the flute - which really is not the instrument for tunes like that when it comes down to it. But Paul also has the Donegal tunes from Paul O Shaughnessy, another Dublin man who of course got them from Frankie and Mairead, who both came to live in Dublin as National School teachers in the late 1970s. When it comes down to it, you could do a six-degrees-of-Kevin Bacon kind of thing on non-Donegal musicians who play the Donegal tunes, and it would all trace back to Frankie and Mairead at some point. (Or maybe the Glackins or Tommy Peoples...)