Third Octave Chart for Concert Flute?

[jemtheflute]

Back on the OP's Q, here's a slightly added to version of the fingerings I worked out for the Seery and posted in that old thread Steve kindly linked above.

Code: Select all

g''        	xxx ooo
g''#          xxo xox
a''       	 xxo ooo         	
a’’#/b''b	  xox oxo	
b''      	  xoo ooo
c'''nat  	  oxo xxo
c'''#         oxx xoo        	this is more in tune and stronger than any other suggestions - and is in fact the standard 8-key 
                                    fingering for this note (with Eb key open!).
d'''          oxx ooo           again, the "standard" - and best fingering on this Seery
e'''b      	xxx xxo           (poor and overtoney, but there if wanted)
e'''       	xxo xxo        	or try xxo oxx, but that is too flat on this Seery
f''' nat  	                   no workable pure cross-fingering that I can find – xDo xxo or xxo xDo may get somewhere
                                    (D = half-hole)
f'''#      	xxx xox           or try xox xox, but that is sharp on this Seery
g'''          xox ooo           or possibly xox oox, see which is best
g'''#     	 oox ooo
a'''       	oxx xxo
a'''#/b'''b   xxo xoo
b'''       	xoo xoo  	      just about works - not wonderful, but there - a bit sharp, a bit ringy, needing to be pushed
                                    quite hard with the embouchure rolled out a tad, or it drops out.
c''''nat  	 xox oxo         	not bad! 

[MTGuru]

It is perhaps amusing, not to say confusing, to note that a modern US usage, at least in the music trade, is to refer to what we in GB would call "orchestral instruments" or "classical instruments" as "band instruments" - e.g. plenty of adds on eBay US for "band instruments" including, Bohm flutes, clarinets, saxes...... Given the Guru's CV (would that be "resumé" in Merkin?), perhaps he could elucidate that?

My CV ... Curmudgeonly Vanity? Cringeworthy Violin-playing? Cacophonous Vuvuzela?

For most of my life, a Curriculum Vitae was the kind of thing an academician would present, a lengthy sheaf with details of published papers, conferences attended, courses taught, etc.; while a resumé (and usually not the correct résumé) was a business-oriented work summary, often one page. But back in the 90s, thanks in part to globalization, I suppose, the European sense of CV became more common as a general term here. For example, at various points the company I worked for was (mis)managed by folks in Brussels, Munich, and Barcelona, and it was just easier to go with the terminological flow.

I think "band instruments" simply reflects the hands-on context in which those instruments are more usually experienced by players here. Namely, marching bands, concert bands, community bands, wind ensembles, even jazz bands. Many high schools and universities may have no orchestral program, but robust marching or concert bands. My own HS orchestra was brutally bad, but the concert band was top-notch, as was the jazz band. Community bands are still popular everywhere, in the Sousa tradition (or maybe The Music Man!). And they're not just brass ensembles as in "Brassed Off". Except for urban and academic centers, community orchestras were less common, at least in my heyday. Hence the stronger association with "band" than "orchestral" in popular usage. That's my conjecture, anyway.

[jemtheflute]

Thanks for that, MTG - pretty much what I assumed, but didn't really know, cultural stereotypes an'all! (Hastily ducks behind the bleachers......)

[MTGuru]

If I think about it, having been brainwashed on this side of the pond, I might reserve "orchestral instruments" for those likely to be found in an orchestra but not a band - such as the bowed strings, cor anglais, tympani, pedal harp, etc. But not in a rigid way. Our concert band, for example, included English Horn and tympani when called for by the score.

[Denny]

I moved a bit before mid way through the last four years of public school.

The school I moved from band existed to march and do halftime shows. The competed, at the state level and usually did well, every year. The might have played sitting down once later in the year. There was no orchestra.

The school I moved to was much less typical. Band director hated marching, sports, etc.

[MTGuru]

The school I moved to was much less typical. Band director hated marching, sports, etc.

Your second director sounds a lot like mine. He was a great admirer of Frederick Fennel and the Eastman Wind Ensemble, and he always pushed us toward that same level of quality. One year we debuted a world premiere piece by Czech composer Václav Nelhýbel. And later I had a chance to play under Donald Hunsberger, Fennel's successor. With this background, "band instrument" had few negative connotations for me.

Sorry for the sidetrack, folks.

[Denny]

gave up a New York A1 woodwind card to teach high school in NE Ohio
It was a traumatic adjustment walking in part way through my sophomore year. There were people there that could play! I'd always been the only tenor. It took over a week to get to second chair!

I think he cured me stage fright in my senior year!

[oakuss]

The school I moved to was much less typical. Band director hated marching, sports, etc.

Your second director sounds a lot like mine. He was a great admirer of Frederick Fennel and the Eastman Wind Ensemble, and he always pushed us toward that same level of quality. One year we debuted a world premiere piece by Czech composer Václav Nelhýbel. And later I had a chance to play under Donald Hunsberger, Fennel's successor. With this background, "band instrument" had few negative connotations for me.

Sorry for the sidetrack, folks.

Back in my band days, I was a real fan of Václav Nelhýbel. And Francis McBeth. We used to do their stuff in band all the time. And Nelhýbel also wrote 11 tuba duets that were really fun, highly syncopated. My friend and I used to try to get through one of them without cracking up, and never made it. It was just somehow a really hilarious piece of music.

[MTGuru]

Yes, Nelhýbel wrote some interesting, unusual, challenging stuff, always with a love of young players in mind. For the piece and performance I mentioned - wish I could remember the title, maybe Estampie? - he came to our school and conducted us himself, including a week of rehearsals. It was quite an experience at the time.

[Denny]

one our newer pieces was "1812"....

[Nanohedron]

The origins of concert flute are in distinguishing it from "flute" as a completely generic term for any air-reed-driven aerophone. It's a distinction based on use, not morphology - though associated at different historical times with particular morphologies. And the generic usage persists in many languages today.

I'd assumed that present use of "concert" in the Irish sense has, at least by default, come to mean having more to do with pitch: D. "Concert pitch" for the uilleann pipes is, of course, D as well. Eb, F, or G flutes sometimes had different terms such as "3/4" or "half", as I recall, but I can't remember which is what as far as that goes, or why.

I don't recall any Irish usage of "concert" in this context meaning anything other than a D stick, but then I certainly could have missed it.

[jemtheflute]

I'd assumed that present use of "concert" in the Irish sense has, at least by default, come to mean having more to do with pitch: D. "Concert pitch" for the uilleann pipes is, of course, D as well.

I don't recall any Irish usage of "concert" in this context meaning anything other than a D stick, but then I certainly could have missed it.

Wasn't that the burden of the relevant part my first post in this thread?

[Nanohedron]

I'd assumed that present use of "concert" in the Irish sense has, at least by default, come to mean having more to do with pitch: D. "Concert pitch" for the uilleann pipes is, of course, D as well.

I don't recall any Irish usage of "concert" in this context meaning anything other than a D stick, but then I certainly could have missed it.

Wasn't that the burden of the relevant part my first post in this thread?

Oh dear.

@Ben: 'concert flute' was originally (and to some extent still is) in all contexts/usages a distinction from 'band flute', not about system but about size/pitch and use. Thus any full size D (C) flute is not a band flute, it is a concert flute; but extension of the original practical, descriptive sense may lead to people now using it to mean Bohm flute as the orchestral standard and excluding 'folk' instruments like the modern keyless 'Irish' flute... But the Irish tend to conserve the 'not a band flute' sense/usage.

So it was. Hey, I've got yer back. Yeah, that's what it is.

[jemtheflute]

Hey, I've got yer back.

"Got me back" for what? What have I ever done....????

[Nanohedron]

Hey, I've got yer back.

"Got me back" for what? What have I ever done....????

Please don't tell me this is one of those idiom-incomprehension situations, like the Yank "So-and-so has major chops", or the British "Knock you up in the morning". Seriously.