LefreQue - what the heck?

[nohoval_turrets]

So, looking at flute accessories on an online flute retailer, I came across the following gizmo, and was intrigued:

https://www.lefreque.com

They call it a "sound bridge" that improves tone and projection on wind instruments by carrying the sound vibrations more efficiently across the joints. Now this intrigues me for several reasons. First, I didn't think wind instruments really worked this way - I don't think of the material resonating the way it does on a string instrument. If this thing works as advertised (and I'm skeptical whilst still being intrigued), then I have obviously got this wrong.

Secondly, there's a lot on YouTube about this thing, and no one seems skeptical or unimpressed. And the musicians involved are obviously highly skilled. On the other hand, this is an area where expectations can have a big impact on outcome, so I'd really like to see blind tests, where the musician doesn't know whether it's attached or not.

Finally, I can understand that this metal doo-hickey would have better vibration transference than a cork joint, but I would have thought the tight metal joints of a silver flute would be better again. So why would the LefreQue make any difference?

I'd be interested to know what people think of this, especially any makers. Is it something worth trying on a flute for ITM, or is it just snake oil?

[benhall.1]

My own opinion is that it's snake oil. But then, what would I know? I always end up asking myself one straightforward question: how many top flute players use this thing? I mean, top players now. 'Cos if it's a tremendous advance in flute technology, then it should be close to all of them. I don't think it is.

[Tunborough]

Looks like snake oil to me, too. Or maybe a pyramid scheme. The "spectral analysis" tells me only that the piccolo player was playing slightly higher in pitch on the second trial, perhaps blowing a tad harder. Not necessarily anything to do with a 14K gold dohicky strapped to the barrel.

[benhall.1]

I've seen them advertised several times. I've never been tempted to try one. Apart from anything else, I've always been put off by the pseudo-scientific and, it seems to me, inaccurate and misleading, term "acoustic bridge". Hmmm ...

Also, given that they all look ghastly, and are held on by elastic bands, and according to the sellers work whichever model you buy, why would you spend more to get a gold one, or a platinum one, or whatever?

[plunk111]

I bought one "on spec" for my silver flute, fully expecting to return it. However, it actually works... Low notes are more clear and high notes are more "solid". I haven't tried it on my wood (Gallagher) flute and don't intend to. Not sure why it works, but it does seem to (and I need all the help I can get!). It may be "snake oil" and way over priced, but I will be using it for the foreseeable future.

Pat

[benhall.1]

I bought one "on spec" for my silver flute, fully expecting to return it. However, it actually works... Low notes are more clear and high notes are more "solid". I haven't tried it on my wood (Gallagher) flute and don't intend to. Not sure why it works, but it does seem to (and I need all the help I can get!). It may be "snake oil" and way over priced, but I will be using it for the foreseeable future.

Pat

Which is entirely fair enough.

[nohoval_turrets]

I've been looking at forums for sax and classical flute, and there's a "lively" debate going on between those who say that however it works, it just works, and those who say that it doesn't and couldn't work.

I've always been put off by the pseudo-scientific and, it seems to me, inaccurate and misleading, term "acoustic bridge". Hmmm ...

Yes, they're definitely creating a fog of sciencey sounding words, without really backing them up with science.

I bought one "on spec" for my silver flute, fully expecting to return it. However, it actually works... Low notes are more clear and high notes are more "solid"

Not that I doubt you, but what I'd really like to do is blindfold you and see if you can tell when I've added the LeFreque to your flute. OK, that's a weird image, but my intentions are honourable... flute tone is so variable, that you have to take the element of expectation out of it.

I'm much more on the snake-oil side I think, being unconvinced that vibrations in the instrument contribute to the sound, or that you can significantly alter the vibration with a little piece of metal. Still, I'd love to try one out. But to pay for one? Not so much.

[benhall.1]

plunk111, given that you've got one already, I know you say you don't intend to try it on your wooden flute ... but could you? Or are you worried about it scratching the flute? I'd be curious to know if you also see a benefit on a wooden flute.

[jemtheflute]

I've been involved in some debate on these elsewhere. Suffice it to say that a lot of very good classical players are convinced they can hear/feel a difference with these things attached. But such fads have come and gone before. I'm open-minded at present about whether they may enhance tone-production somehow - it is conceivable, though I am sceptical. What I am quite certain about is that they do not work in the way they are claimed to work, which is an acoustic and physical nonsense as best I understand such things, having read a lot about flute acoustics. The stuff on the LefreQue website is at best bad science and for the most part pseudo-scientific drivel. The tubes of woodwind instruments simply are not resonant bodies in the way they are implying (and are most certainly not tuned resonant bodies nor tunable to any given note in the instrument's tessitura as it is played), and if there is any resonance of the body of the flute as a perceptible part of the projected tone, it can't possibly affect intonation or harmonic composition of the tone of the vibrating air-column in the ways they suggest.

One obvious test of them which I've not seen discussed is whether their alleged effects are observable when they are strapped to a contiguous section of body tube rather than across a joint. I also simply cannot understand how one could possibly "improve" the already very good contact metal-to-metal in a well-fitted metal flute's joints.

[paddler]

I agree with Jem's take on this. I have never tried one of these things, so I can't say whether I would notice a difference or not. However, the explanation given on the website for how they work seems like nonsense to me. It is certainly not science. A proper controlled experiment would need to explore all kinds of alternative explanations and rule those out before making such strong claims. For example, is the claimed effect simply due to a change in the mass of the flute? Would strapping the device to other parts of the flute have equal effect? Would strapping any equally weighted object to the flute have the same effect? If it really is a matter of bridging an acoustic gap between two parts of the flute, why isn't there an equivalent acoustic gap (two in fact) between the device and the flute? How is this gap bridged? Would this device have zero effect on a single section flute? If so, are they claiming that single section flutes sound better than those with multiple sections, due to the lack of acoustic gaps in such flutes?

Is it simply a placebo effect involving the perceptions of the player? Has this possibility been ruled out experimentally? Are differences observed in blind tests where players do not know whether they have the device attached or not? If there is a demonstrable difference at all, is it always "better"?

I remain unconvinced.

[Geoffrey Ellis]

I vote for placebo effect. Many top flight Boehm flute players swear up and down that gold flutes sound better than silver flutes, based just upon the difference in the material, whereas every blind test done with different flute materials contradicts this. One of the weirdest beliefs around flutes (and I'm amazed it is so widespread and tenacious) is that they "resonate" audibly as a result of the material like a guitar or violin. Lots of threads on this forum on this very subject.

The notion that some gizmo like this is going to suddenly transform a flute that already has a stable and well-sealed joint just seems goofy to me. And as has already been stated, there seems to be a fair bit of jargon that doesn't really mean anything:

"On a flute you slide the pieces into each other, thereby effecting a sound breach, which again will be corrected by using the lefreQue."

What exactly is a "sound breach"? With a flute, the only thing that makes sense would be an air leak at the joint and this thing strapped to the outside is not going to help that. You'd get better results from wrapping some masking tape around the joint.

But the reality is that even absolutely top flight players who have an excellent musical ear and lots of experience are by no means immune to the placebo effect.

[david_h]

What's left of the scientist in me see's the "pseudo-scientific drivel" as jem put it and suspects he is reading an advert for snake oil.

However, whilst having seen no scientific evidience that the acoustics of a gold flute should be any different to that of a silver one, I remain suspicious of any sort of trial that shows no difference between two flutes one of which must be almost twice the weight of the other. With a 'three point hold' the pressure on the lip must be slightly different and under normal playing conditions it cannot be a blind trial. Pseudo-science must be countered with good science.

[Peter Otto]

During the 80ies a comparable gizmo was marketed for electric guitars, the "Fat Finger". To be clamped to the guitar head, it was supposed to increase sustain drastically. It came and went Nobody uses it these days.

[Tunborough]

During the 80ies a comparable gizmo was marketed for electric guitars, the "Fat Finger". To be clamped to the guitar head, it was supposed to increase sustain drastically. It came and went Nobody uses it these days.

Eeek! It's still around: http://intl.fender.com/en-CA/accessorie ... ar-nickel/.

At least it plausibly does something it says it does, "adds mass to the weak end of the instrument," even if that's unlikely to change the sound.

[Steve Bliven]

I wonder what would happen if you used one of them LefreQue thingys and attached Adele to Justin Bieber...

Best wishes.

Steve