Irish Flute Recommendation

[RPereira]

After many years playing whistle I finally decided to start playing the Irish flute.
Below you will find what I am after in an Irish Flute.

1. How long have you been playing flute?
Never played flute except for some experiments on a keyless flute and some more experiments for a while on the Bansuri. I have been playing whistle for more than 10 years.

2. Are you interested in having keys?
I am interested in a 6 or 8-keyed flute to increase the chromatic range because I play tunes in different keys with common accidentals.
I would like to have an 8-keyed flute to get the C# and C, nevertheless I read in Terry Mcgee’s website that he does not recommend having a foot joint because the low D will not sound that good?
What can you say about this?

3. Do you have large, medium, or small size hands?
I have medium to large sized hands, therefore no problems regarding fingers stretch.

4. Any known wood allergies?
No wood allergies.

5. What environments do you plan on using the flute?
At home, small sessions, large noisy sessions, and on stage.

6. How quickly do you want/need to obtain a flute?
I do not have intentions to wait absurdly several months or years.

7. Maximum you are willing to pay?
No restrictions at the moment.
I am just trying to know what is available that can have the characteristics I am after in an Irish flute.

8. What type of grip are you interested to use to hold the flute?
I am interested in using the piper's grip.
The reason why is that I am to have flexibility in playing other types of flutes like Bansuri or Dizi.
I use it in whistles and used it in Bansuris for a while.

9. What type or style of tunes you want to play?
Irish, Scottish, English, Breton, Swedish, Asturian, Galician, Antique, Medieval, Renaissance, Baroque.

10. What tone and performance characteristics are you after in an Irish flute?

TONE
- Complex
- Rich, Dark, Deep and Full (not clear, or bright or pure)
- Colourful
- With character

PERFORMANCE
- Fast and responsive
- Intimately responsive to your breath
- Air Efficient
- Ability for shaping the tone
- Easy access to the 3rd octave
- Great dynamic range where I can lean into the notes and push them for expressiveness
- Play expressively, in order to play quietly or loud as necessary, in both octaves
- Good at cross-fingering
- Good at Half-Holing and bending notes, therefore relatively large holes
- Tonal evenness (every note equally strong, clear and with the same tonal characteristics)
- Fully in tune regarding the modern tempered scale.



What makers do you know that can satisfy the above characteristic?

Any recommendations, tips and feedback will be very much appreciated!
Thank you very much for your time and patience.

Warm Regards,
Ricardo

[bigsciota]

One issue with fully-keyed flutes is that there is often a significant wait from well-known makers to get one. In that case, the used market is a good possibility to get your hands on a flute straight out. If money truly is no object, there's an 8 keyed Grinter for sale on the Irish Flute Store for a mere $8,499.99!

https://www.irishflutestore.com/collect ... ver-rudall

For well-known makers with relatively short wait times, Terry McGee, Dave Copley, and Jil Lehart come to mind. One of Terry's big things is working with the player to figure out exactly what they want. He's got a bunch of models, different embouchure cuts, different wood options, all that jazz so I'm sure you could lay out exactly what you're looking for and he'd be able to make you something good.

Lehart only makes one model of flute, a large holed Rudall-esque deisgn, but I would say his flutes broadly fits what you're looking for. He's also got some of the most reasonable prices for a 6 keyed flute, although he does not do an 8 key model IIRC. I've got a Lehart keyless and it's got a lovely dark tone, big sound but fairly flexible and responsive. Lehart is also one of very few makers that can add keys onto a keyless flute, since he works with post-mounted keys. Most other makers will have to make a new body to turn a keyless into a keyed flute.

Copley is well-known for his delrin flutes and will do a 6 keyed delrin one that would be nigh on indestructible, if that's your thing. His flutes are a bit more Pratten-esque, although they're really a sort of intermediate based on Boosey and Hawkes instruments. You can try out one of his keyless flutes for very cheap since he makes very reasonably priced delrin ones, and they've certainly got good honk/power for sessions. Might be worth posting a WTB, I'm sure someone's got one hanging around. He's also got one of the absolute best deals you'll find on a keyless wooden flute, a bare-bones one in blackwood, mopane, or boxwood for less than $500!

Another option is getting on a wait list and buying an M&E 6 keyed flute to get you started. M&E makes good sturdy flutes, decent players and by far the cheapest you'll get a usable 6 key flute. You start to learn on it, then in a couple years when you come up for the flute of your dreams, you can either sell it or keep it as your "beater" flute. A similar idea that people often do is get a keyless from a maker, which is usually a much shorter wait, and then get on their keyed waiting list so you can get used to their flutes before you get your fully keyed one. I've heard of a lot of people doing this with makers like Olwell that have 6-7 year waiting lists for keyed flutes, but only a year for keyless.

Honestly, what you're going to get in this thread is a bunch of people throwing flute names at you that they like. The problem is, they are not you! Pretty much any good-quality flute from some of the names I've mentioned will get you started, but as you grow in your playing you'll eventually start developing opinions, wanting certain things a little different or pining for XYZ sound. Ultimately, the only way to get the right flute is to play a bunch of flutes, and eventually you'll settle on the one that feels best for you. Otherwise, you're just getting the flutes that work best for other people, not necessarily for you.

[Sirchronique]

Coincidentally, I just asked a question about foot keys and how they affect the low D, as well.


What I can say in regards to your other questions, is that with flutes there is so much that comes down to the player. A fantastic flute for one person might not be the best option for another, even if they have similar tastes in sound and playing characteristics. You don’t really know until you play that flute. I like Lesouef flutes a lot, as they are very responsive and play a way that is suitable for my mouth, my style of playing, and how I blow. My backup flute is from Baubet, and I like it a lot, too.

Olwell and Grinter are widely adored. Lots of people like antique flutes. Morvan flutes are very nice. If price isn’t an issue, you can try out several, but I would wait until after you’ve spent enough time with one of them to even be able to determine what you like, which isn’t as possible when you are first starting.

If you are using a piper’s grip, you will want to make sure the keys work for the way you keep your hands, as they might be in places where they get in the way or aren’t accessible.

A lot of the sound preferences you mention can be gotten on most flutes, and come down to the player. Air efficiency, shaping the tone, playing “expressively”, how strong notes are and their tonal characteristics, and things like this have a lot to do with your embouchure. Yes, the flute undeniably has an effect on this, but most people sound like themselves on the majority of flutes that they pick up.


If I were in your shoes, I would get a nice keyless flute with a short wait time and really spend some time learning to play and getting to know it. This will put you in a position to evaluate what you like in other flutes, which you can later try out, and also give you something to play while you wait for a keyed flute to be made for you. Dropping a lot of money on an 8 key flute as your first flute may cause you to end up with something that isn’t ideal for you. Then you’d have to sell it and repeat the process.

[Flexismart]

If you want a new 6-key build, made to your specifications, in any of a number of woods, with great tone and tuning, at a reasonable price, and reasonable wait time, you should look seriously at this maker: http://www.francoisbaubet.com

For a new build with keys from almost any maker, you'll wait a minimum of at least a year. In the meantime, you could get a cheap practice flute to get started. Honestly, the time will fly by. Some of the high demand/high priced makers have wait lists that are 2 to 10 years. A modern maker will want to ask you what you want in a flute - lined or unlined head, key blocks or pins, types of rings, types of tenons, key placements, etc, etc. If you don't know what you want, you'll be at a disadvantage. This is why you need to investigate and interview other flute players to see what they have. Look at the classic makers flutes to determine exactly what your needs are.

Having had around 30+ different flutes - antiques, off the shelf, and custom made, I'd agree with Terry McGee that anything more that a 6-key is not necessary. Many people like them, and can use the C# and C keys, but, IMO, until you move into the very expensive modern league, such as Wilkes, Olwell, Aebi, or can afford a great condition Rudall & Rose (or similar) you'll probably find that you don't use those keys enough to justify the additional expense. (Flute players find ways to work around the notes on the staff below the low D - it's an exercise we all do). I don't know about Terry McGee's observation about how an 8-key foot joint compromises tone on the D note, but he probably has statistics, charts, and graphs to justify his conclusion.


Or you could try what many of us do when we start out - buy a flute that you can afford, sort out what you like or dislike about it, buy/sell/trade for another flute, and keep doing that until you find what you want. It's rare that the first flute that you buy will be the one you stick with for your playing career, but it does happen.

For context, with over 40 years of actively playing, I've settled on 2 Hamilton flutes, a 6-key, and a keyless with a short foot joint, a Baubet Eb keyless delrin and an on-order 6-key mopane, and a Hawkes & Co F cocus 6 key.

Best of luck with your search.

[tstermitz]

Exciting journey!

You will probably get a lot of different suggestions. In terms of 8-key modern/powerful flutes, I might recommend a John Gallagher as his flutes have a powerful tone and come up from time to time. Jay Ham also comes to mind.

Flutern from this list (Canadian) is presently listing a beautiful olive wood 9-key flute from John Gallagher which would probably meet your desires.

Also, I've just listed my large-holed Rudall & Rose, which has a warm, lush tone and very good intonation for an antique.

In terms of an 8-key, you have fewer choices , while for a 6-key you will have many more choices - patience is necessary to be rewarded.... Monitor the IrishFluteStore.com.

Many of your criteria lean toward a larger-holed flute, which may be more useful for loud sessions. But,

A few of your other desires contraindicate a large-holed flute: Cross-fingering for different notes would be much more available on a small-holed flute. Also, I feel that a smaller holed-flute like a traditional Rudall & Rose rings out brightly for 3rd octave notes, and that a smaller flute responds to or attacks the notes more quickly. Large-holed flutes can have some intonation issues between the middle C & C# keys.

For volume and evenness of tone, there is really nothing better than a modern Boehm flute, or a historic Siccama design, but now you don't have much access to slides and half-holing.

With skill and practice you can get much of which you desire from any flute, including getting more volume or punch from a smaller-holed flute.

[kkrell]

Pick one:

- Good at cross-fingering
- Good at Half-Holing and bending notes, therefore relatively large holes

[Conical bore]

My $.02 opinion on some of those questions:

I would like to have an 8-keyed flute to get the C# and C, nevertheless I read in Terry Mcgee’s website that he does not recommend having a foot joint because the low D will to sound so good? What can you say abut this?

I have two 8-key flutes: a Thomas Aebi Rudall-type in Cocus and a Peter Noy, Nicholson-type in Blackwood. Both have nice strong low D notes that require no extra effort. Maybe the low D would be even stronger without the key pads hovering overhead, but it's strong and balanced enough with the other notes for me. Other flutes may vary, and I can only speak from my experience with these two makers.

- Good at cross-fingering
- Good at Half-Holing and bending notes, therefore relatively large holes

With a six or eight keyed flute you may find as I did, that this isn't a priority because you have keys for the notes that one typically cross fingers or half-holes on a whistle or keyless flute. I do cross-finger the Cnat instead of using the key, because I prefer the slightly higher than 12TET pitch. I think it's "idiomatic" for this music. But I don't half-hole any notes I used to on a keyless flute. Keys are faster and more consistent for hitting those notes. I do bend notes occasionally on slow airs.

I do not have intentions to wait absurdly several months or years.

With an unlimited budget you have access to the most reputable flute makers, but this may be a problem with wait time, since they tend to have long waiting lists for keyed flutes.

Would you consider buying used? All three of my keyed flutes -- the Aebi, Noy, and Lehart Bb -- were bought used. The Aebi on Ebay and the Noy and Lehart from the Irish Flute Store, which I can recommend as a vendor. I hesitate to recommend this, because our niche makers of these instruments deserve our support, and it's the best way to get something special and personalized if you want something a little unusual. But the option is there if you keep an eye on the used flute market.