Chiff and Fipple Forums

as a pro musician and multi intstrumentalist, I've had all sortsa of probs...much less to none now. I use a piper's grip and have not had a single problem as my LH wrist is straight. My RH has never had a prob either...BUT i'm cautious to NEVER EVER EVER 'play through the pain.' this ain't the gym. if it hurts or even bothers..STOP. Figure out why and think "my hands are relaxed" and follow through w/that thought

jim stone wrote:It's conventional wisdom that a more neutral wrist
position helps ward off injury, carpal tunnel, or whatever,

This and "what is most comfortable at first may not be safest in the long term" seem to come up in most discussions of upper hand position. Can anyone provide a bit more hard information ?

I have slight ulnar nerve problem (too long on a computer leaning on left elbow or fore-arm while using the mouse in right hand). If, when playing the flute, I try and straighten my left wrist beyond what is relaxed it doesn't hurt at the time but feels tight and then hurts later, sometimes for days.

I am a beginner. I learned to hold my flute from the instructions in Grey Larsen's book (he emphasises the 'relaxed' bit). My wrist ends up slightly bent (not unlike jemtheflutes 'avatar' - I assume its him).

So unless someone had some mighty good evidence against it I am going to stick with 'relaxed'. But if there is good evidence, I would like to know about it. I am starting flute at an age where it is getting difficult to distinguish between 'stiff after a good workout' and 'overdid it and caused an injury'.

Sorry to sound negative. I am learning a lot here. (edited for typos)

david_h wrote:Can anyone provide a bit more hard information ?

No...

Now, if you're willing to step over to the non traditional side of the street, where they have a bit more budget for things...

http://www.bodymap.org/

This is not to infer that Body Mapping has uncontested hard information Or that this side of the street is any less snarky.

david_h wrote:

jim stone wrote:It's conventional wisdom that a more neutral wrist
position helps ward off injury, carpal tunnel, or whatever,

This and "what is most comfortable at first may not be safest in the long term" seem to come up in most discussions of upper hand position. Can anyone provide a bit more hard information ?

I have slight ulnar nerve problem (too long on a computer leaning on left elbow or fore-arm while using the mouse in right hand). If, when playing the flute, I try and straighten my left wrist beyond what is relaxed it doesn't hurt at the time but feels tight and then hurts later, sometimes for days.

I am a beginner. I learned to hold my flute from the instructions in Grey Larsen's book (he emphasises the 'relaxed' bit). My wrist ends up slightly bent (not unlike jemtheflutes 'avatar' - I assume its him).

So unless someone had some mighty good evidence against it I am going to stick with 'relaxed'. But if there is good evidence, I would like to know about it. I am starting flute at an age where it is getting difficult to distinguish between 'stiff after a good workout' and 'overdid it and caused an injury'.

Sorry to sound negative. I am learning a lot here. (edited for typos)

Slightly bent is great, IMO. Not a matter of ramrod straight.
THAT seems to me a mistake. Many of us start out with
wrists pretty drastically cocked. More neutral moderates
that. More neutral doesn't mean unrelaxed. It sounds
as though your position is excellent.

I tried to copy the picture of Veillon (but couldn't), whose
wrist is gracefully bent. Maybe someone can do it.
That's what I'd like to do.

If something definitely hurts or has nasty consequences,
for heaven's sake, don't do it!

jim stone wrote: I tried to copy the picture of Veillon (but couldn't), whose
wrist is gracefully bent. Maybe someone can do it.
That's what I'd like to do.

not sure if this will suffice:

Thanks Denny. http://www.bodymap.org/articles/artpianistinj.html on that site, though about pianists, is an interesting read regarding RSI (and not too much of a sales pitch). To me it sounds less a case of "what is easiest when starting may cause problems later" but "it is easy at the start to do things that cause problems later". Not quite the same thing.

Brazenkaine wrote:...BUT i'm cautious to NEVER EVER EVER 'play through the pain.' this ain't the gym. if it hurts or even bothers..STOP. Figure out why and think "my hands are relaxed" and follow through w/that thought

which summarises a lot in that article.

I am going to print out that bottom photo of JMV, reverse it, and stick it on the mirror.

Where does your thumb go?

That's a little, uh, personal, isn't it? Can I take the fifth?

To me it sounds less a case of "what is easiest when starting may cause problems later" but "it is easy at the start to do things that cause problems later". Not quite the same thing.'

Right, but, transferred from piano to flute, the source supports the first
claim. That is, a radically bent wrist risks injury, the
source says. Initially a radically cocked wrist may not
be at all uncomfortable, it provides a wider surface
at the base of L1 on which to balance the flute,
and it brings the fingers more easily into contact
with the holes. So what's easiest (for a number of people)
when starting flute may cause problems later.

As I've tried to straighten my wrist I've had to reposition
my fingers and also work on holding the instrument
securely. With the wrist straighter (but not entirely
straight) it was easier for the flute to 'fall off'
my left hand.

david_h wrote:(not unlike jemtheflutes 'avatar' - I assume its him).

Guilty as charged!

rh, anything, but anything of J-MV will suffice....... but not for long! One simply has to have more. It's an addiction. I think this may be another new C&F Flute disease, following in the tracks of Death Grip and Serial Compulsive Flute Acquisition etc.
BTW, I just read a (good) review today of a new Toud'Sames album (from Coop Breizh) involving said personage... I NEED it!!!!!!!!!!!

emmdee wrote:...It means I have a nice straight left wrist,...

Seriously, I am big on straight wrists, both wrists, long story short.

Your mileage may vary on this, but I have not been able to get my LH wrist straight when using a piper's grip, as my wrist tends to rotate outwards, sideways. That grip apparently does allow for great dexterity of the fingers, but the wrist issue doesn't go away, at least not for me.

My congradulations to you on finding a position which gets and keeps your wrist straight, no matter how you got there!