hawkes and son history?

[jemtheflute]

Yup, Eb at circa A = 450-455 Hz.

The missing "decorative end" is the crown or cap. The barrel (short separate bit of the head) crack visible on the eBay listing ought not to be too bad to fix, and for the rest, as you say, your skill-set should set you up. Disassembly, cleaning, repadding...... As I said, for that money, well worth a punt even if it doesn't get you quite what you were after.

BTW, the keys give the semitones missing from the main diatonic scale of the open finger-holes. It would be treated as a transposing instrument "in Db" in orchestral terms. That is, a written D (6-finger note) will sound an Eb, at whatever pitch standard it is built to. In "D flute" terms (orchestral "C"), the keys are, working from the bottom, for Eb (R little finger), F natural ("long" and "short", duplicate keys), G# (L little finger), Bb (L thumb) and C natural (R forefinger).

[ducks]

yes, sorry, it was that one!

thanks for the key info, it makes sense. I actually work in a Design and Technology classroom, and I'm sure it has a lathe, not that I know how to use it! But I know a man who does- but that's the least of my worries, it's purely cosmetic.

I am guessing a padded clamp and appropriate glue is the best way to sort the crack? and would that be pva or epoxy? (I'm sorry to treat you so rudely with so many questions, please ignore me or be rude if you feel the urge). The joints are still tight, which is a great relief; the most obvious issue is some of the pads, which I think are original and a bit knackered; I haven't taken it apart yet but the one that fell out looks like leather, it's so old and squashed, though I'm betting it's cork. The white metal is nasty, but I'm a metals snob and it's something I'll just have to deal with

i think it's do-able. What I'm aiming for is something whistle-like but transverse that I can play for my own amusement (and the probable immense irritation of my kids.)

[jemtheflute]

yes, sorry, it was that one!

thanks for the key info, it makes sense. I actually work in a Design and Technology classroom, and I'm sure it has a lathe, not that I know how to use it! But I know a man who does- but that's the least of my worries, it's purely cosmetic.

I am guessing a padded clamp and appropriate glue is the best way to sort the crack? and would that be pva or epoxy? (I'm sorry to treat you so rudely with so many questions, please ignore me or be rude if you feel the urge). The joints are still tight, which is a great relief; the most obvious issue is some of the pads, which I think are original and a bit knackered; I haven't taken it apart yet but the one that fell out looks like leather, it's so old and squashed, though I'm betting it's cork. The white metal is nasty, but I'm a metals snob and it's something I'll just have to deal with

i think it's do-able. What I'm aiming for is something whistle-like but transverse that I can play for my own amusement (and the probable immense irritation of my kids.)

Nothing wrong with German Silver! Polishes up a treat!

You'll need to replace the pads, for sure - we can guide you on that. As for the crack(s?), no, what you wrote is NOT the way to do it! It has cracked because the wood shrank over the brass liner-tube of the barrel that forms part of the tuning slide. It probably won't clamp shut, and if it did, glue wouldn't hold it for long, and even if you pinned or stitched it, it would likely crack again elsewhere. There are quite a few old threads here about head and barrel cracks and how to treat them if you use the search tool (save us writing it all out again!). If you look me up on FaceBook, I have some photo-story albums of flute repairs I've done which show the techniques involved.

Be careful of those "tight joints"! Oh, and the crown wasn't purely cosmetic, especially if the stopper cork has a screw adjuster shank which would have screwed through the drown - can I see a finial poking out of tube? (Piccies of similar on my FB too) But you're right that it isn't necessary to replace the crown for playability.

[ducks]

slight update

First, huge and enormous thanks to Jem for his patience and all-round helpfulness, it's been hugely appreciated and very useful.
With the crack in the barrel plugged with blutack (inelegant as it gets, but also very temporary) and the second key (which has an iffy pad) removed and the hole blocked, this has got a tone which far surpasses my £20 expectations; it's kind of pure and sweet and woody. Very very playable. It's in a slightly unsociable key, but as I play mostly on my own, Eb isn't a major problem.

Jem's completely right about the nasty white metal (I can't bring myself to call it anything with "silver" in the name...); it does polish up a treat. The plug (is that what it's called?!) is moveable. With pliers, ahem.

I need to find out the best adhesive for pads, and whether the wood needs polishing/feeding etc, and what the best thing for cleaning the dull patches under the keys. But I've pretty much reached the limitss of what I want to do with cleaning and repadding (the pads, by the way, are lovely, and the screws are great, though I appreciate that not everyone is going to share that enthusiasm) It's so much nicer a sound than I was expecting that I'm not happy to experiment with repairing the barrel, I would be so sad if I spoiled it. I'm going to wait until I can afford to pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix it properly, and stick with the blutack until then.

Thank you again, Jem!

[ducks]

ohhh.
Two more things:
playing it for more than a few minutes gives me face-ache. But this shall pass.
It smells funny. Inside the bore. Old and musty...

[jemtheflute]

slight update

First, huge and enormous thanks to Jem for his patience and all-round helpfulness, it's been hugely appreciated and very useful.
With the crack in the barrel plugged with blutack (inelegant as it gets, but also very temporary) and the second key (which has an iffy pad) removed and the hole blocked, this has got a tone which far surpasses my £20 expectations; it's kind of pure and sweet and woody. Very very playable. It's in a slightly unsociable key, but as I play mostly on my own, Eb isn't a major problem.

Jem's completely right about the nasty white metal (I can't bring myself to call it anything with "silver" in the name...); it does polish up a treat. The plug (is that what it's called?!) is moveable. With pliers, ahem.

I need to find out the best adhesive for pads, and whether the wood needs polishing/feeding etc, and what the best thing for cleaning the dull patches under the keys. But I've pretty much reached the limitss of what I want to do with cleaning and repadding (the pads, by the way, are lovely, and the screws are great, though I appreciate that not everyone is going to share that enthusiasm) It's so much nicer a sound than I was expecting that I'm not happy to experiment with repairing the barrel, I would be so sad if I spoiled it. I'm going to wait until I can afford to pay someone who knows what they are doing to fix it properly, and stick with the blutack until then.

Thank you again, Jem!

You're very welcome!

Pads are traditionally fixed in with shellac (still the best option), which allows for reheating and adjusting them to seat them correctly to seal well ("floating" them). PVA or glue-gun hot glue can be used satisfactorily, or even sealing wax. Pads(leather clarinet ones) and shellac are available from Windcraft.

For wood cleaning, I strip off all the keys and rub down inside and out with meths and cotton rags. The bore and the chimneys of the tone-holes and embouchure will, once clean, need to be oiled - with either a proprietary woodwind bore oil or on organic oil of your choice.....(just search the forum for oiling tips, controversies and flame-wars!). The exterior of the wood can also be oiled if you wish, though it won't make much difference. Make sure you dry any oil away from pad-beds before putting the keys back on. I use Brasso and metal wadding for cleaning the metalwork (haven't got a buffing wheel).

The stopper ("plug") is supposed to be movable - and its location matters. You should probably pull it out and check the condition of the cork and also see if the head seals with it in place - old stopper corks are often perished and leaky (and get stuck to the inside of the liner-tube). Before you remove the stopper for a visual check, take just the head without the barrel and suck-test it: put a finger over the embouchure and suck on the tuning slide/liner tube - see if you get a vacuum. When replacing the stopper, rule-of-thumb placing is with the face of the stopper one bore-width back from the centre of the embouchure. Assuming it has a wooden screw-threaded shank, don't use pliers on it in case you ever get a replacement crown turned for it - you'll wreck the thread!. Use a dowel as a push-rod to push it out from the other end.

[jemtheflute]

ohhh.
Two more things:
playing it for more than a few minutes gives me face-ache. But this shall pass.
It smells funny. Inside the bore. Old and musty...

Counter-intuitively, you need to relax while making a piccolo embouchure - yes, the lip-hole and airstream need to be smaller, but not by stressing to squeeze them. But face-ache is normal - and ear-ache for anyone in ear-shot!

The musty smell is normal too - old oils, dust, verdigris..... will mostly go with a good cleaning and regular use/airing.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

Ducks wrote;

(I'm sorry to treat you so rudely with so many questions, please ignore me or be rude if you feel the urge).

Jem's been around this forum for longer than most and he's one of the go to men for any flutey type dilemnas.
As for being rude, you'll have to try a lot harder than that to get under Jem's skin.
Welcome aboard, stick around... it's an education and quare craic to boot.

[Ceili_whistle_man]

I just had a look at the pics, my ears hurt just looking at it!
Looks good though, should fix up nicely.

[ducks]

Oddly, in a small room my kids find it less annoying in its lower register than the whistles

Jem, meths is the only thing I haven't got in my cupboard, but it's hardly a major expense. I have got, not a buffing wheel, but loads of polishing attachments for a pendant motor (or a dremel-style thingy) so that's not a problem. I noticed the discussions about oils And must get shellac, at some point.

The stopper is fine, that and the cork in the joint was one of the first things I checked, and I've got it set in a sensible place, too.

One day, when I have a disposable income, I shall ask if you can add the barrel repair to your waiting list.

[ducks]

note to self:
persisting in playing the theme tune to Blue Peter on a piccolo will probably result in an asbo.

[jemtheflute]

note to self:
persisting in playing the theme tune to Blue Peter on a piccolo will probably result in an asbo.

To be less irritating, ( ) you could always alternate with The Trumpet Hornpipe (aka Captain Pugwash) and The College Hornpipe (aka, wrongly, as The Sailor's). BTW, the Blue Peter theme tune is a version of a tune called Barnacle Bill (not related to the eponymous bawdy song!)

cf:-
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/CO_COLL ... E_HORNPIPE
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/SAIL_SA ... RNPIPE_[1]
http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/TRIS_TS ... RNPIPE_[2]

and a quote I found by googling on "Blue Peter Hornpipe"

The Blue Peter theme is 'Barnacle Bill', not to be confused with The
Sailors' Hornpipe aka The College Hornpipe, or Captain Pugwash, aka The
Trumpet Hornpipe. Three entirely different tunes; two trad, one composed
in the twentieth century.

[ducks]

ahhhhh, I was alternating with The British Grenadiers, which is clearly where I was going wrong.
Captain Pugwash. Genius.

on a side note, I had to youtube the college hornpipe, which seems to all intents and purposes the same as Blue Peter? (which I thought was Barnacle Bill?) I am so bad at names of things.

[jemtheflute]

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... Eg&cad=rja

and

http://www.offthetelly.co.uk/?p=3088

On the second link, run the video of Blue Peter themes - the very first one, after the introduction, is very clearly a wholly different tune from The College.

[ducks]

the first and second are the ones I remember (and clearly, fuzzily!) and you're right. Captain Pugwash is a bit more distinct.
and names just make things worse, the "do your balls hang low " (ears, if you're my daughter) always makes me think of Turkey in the Straw. None of them, anyway, are going to make my neighbours happier. Unless they're out.