Terms used to describe flute tone

[rama]

ah, a little research, how simple:

a·cute (-kyt)
adj.
1. Having a sharp point or tip.....
7. Music High in pitch; shrill.


grav·i·ty   /ˈgrævɪti/ Show Spelled[grav-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ties.
1.the force of attraction by which terrestrial bodies tend to fall toward the center of the earth. ...
8.lowness in pitch, as of sounds

[Rob Sharer]

Still haven't seen my fave word...


Mulchy!


Rob

[Denny]

is that the same as damp & moldy where you are?

[m31]

How much can we really convey in adjectives if we aren't listening to the same thing and listening for the same things. I cannot be certain that you and I are actually talking about the same thing even when we are using identical descriptors; or talking about truly different things when we're using opposite descriptors (dark vs bright tone apparently mean the same thing-- a tone rich in harmonics and a somewhat suppressed fundamental). The lack of a standard vocabulary reflects a certain degree of collective aural illiteracy. No wonder why we talk in circles.

Olfaction has the same problem. I have a hard time imagining what this smells like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanel_No._19

[rama]

No wonder why we talk in circles.

Olfaction has the same problem. I have a hard time imagining what this smells like:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chanel_No._19

that's mulchy of course

[hans]

ah, a little research, how simple:

a·cute (-kyt)
adj.
1. Having a sharp point or tip.....
7. Music High in pitch; shrill.


grav·i·ty   /ˈgrævɪti/ Show Spelled[grav-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun,plural-ties.
1.the force of attraction by which terrestrial bodies tend to fall toward the center of the earth. ...
8.lowness in pitch, as of sounds

Thanks rama! So Rockstro did not mean 'responsiveness'.
Still, I would include fast/slow response as a tonal adjectives.

[benhall.1]

Still haven't seen my fave word...


Mulchy!


Rob

Mine's moist

Fantastic word.

[david_h]

How much can we really convey in adjectives if we aren't listening to the same thing and listening for the same things. I cannot be certain that you and I are actually talking about the same thing even when we are using identical descriptors

[jemtheflute]

i wonder what acuteness/gravity is all about?

i wondered that too.
Perhaps it is the degree of responsiveness, how fast/slow a tone can get started.

I don't think so, Hans. "Acuteness" is of course at least partially synonymous with "sharpness" and "gravity" with "flatness" though the correlation is less strong in the latter pair and "gravity" also has strong overtones ( ) of seriousness, grandeur, solemnity as well. "Sharpness/acuteness" can refer not only/simply to relative pitch, but also to penetrativeness. I think the latter is probably what Rockstro had in mind - piercing sounds in contrast to hearty, sonorous ones - which is kinda back to square one in this discussion if one is trying to exclude sheer volume and actual pitch from the conceptualisation...... what would an "acute" low register note be like, especially played piano????????

I agree with m31 about the semiological problems of shared (or not) conceptualisation of the meanings of words - this synaesthetic problem always crops up in trying to convey how we experience things with our physical senses in words - even discounting that we all have slightly varying receptor and processing gear as well as different life experiences and cultural loading in how we deal with and relate to what we sense......... I don't think that makes an attempt to achieve some kind of consensus understanding and usage of terms worthless - as humans we have more in common than we are significantly different. However, it does form a baseline argument in favour of attempting some kind of scientific analysis, definition and mensuration of the various aspects of tone and of how we produce and aurally experience it. (Not, Rob, as some kind of prescription for practice, but to understand better for that's own sake.... )

[Rob Sharer]

However, it does form a baseline argument in favour of attempting some kind of scientific analysis, definition and mensuration of the various aspects of tone and of how we produce and aurally experience it. (Not, Rob, as some kind of prescription for practice, but to understand better for that's own sake.... )

Having done that, how then would you propose to tack that onto the real-world experience of flute-playing?



Rob

[jemtheflute]

However, it does form a baseline argument in favour of attempting some kind of scientific analysis, definition and mensuration of the various aspects of tone and of how we produce and aurally experience it. (Not, Rob, as some kind of prescription for practice, but to understand better for that's own sake.... )

Having done that, how then would you propose to tack that onto the real-world experience of flute-playing? Rob

How's about this plan: as with most scientific exploration, having identified an area where there is a lack of understanding (whether or not there is a "problem" for which one may be seeking a "solution"), set out to achieve greater understanding for its own sake.... and if the process or results of so doing offer something potentially useful, be that a material design development or a use-method idea, sure, try it! If not, well at least those interested will likely have learnt something from the examination - extended the store of human knowledge and maybe helped to define terms of reference for common use.

I once witnessed a Classical violin teacher with a good record of getting pupils in to top colleges give a low-level student (my daughter) a lesson in which his way of dealing with her failing to achieve something he wanted was to take the fiddle off her, play it his way at her, give it her back and say "do it like that". Needless to say, not having the technical accomplishments and not perceiving what it was he wanted of her, she couldn't, got frustrated and upset and ultimately gave up the instrument. It was clear that was his usual teaching method and clearly it worked well for some pupils, but not for all, and as a trained teacher I was pretty appalled at his manner and approach. It certainly explained her lack of progress - she never properly got shown nor had explained in detail actually how to do things or why some things worked and others didn't, etc...... He just blamed her not getting it on lack of work/application/attention! (Which I knew not to be the case.) How can you "work" at something when you don't have any understanding of the hows and whys or even how to perceive them? One may not need to understand something fully in order to learn by copying, sure, but his "demonstrations" of how to play a piece or perform a technique were meaningless to her because he had not equipped her with the tools to perceive what he was trying to give her, asking her to copy.

So, IMO, having an analytical understanding of what is going on in any technical task and being able to explain it therefrom can be a useful part of the learning-to-do-oneself or teaching process - not necessary for all, but very helpful to some.

(BTW, my lass went on, with a different teacher, to become quite a decent pianist and choral singer - her musicality wasn't the problem, but a teaching method inappropriate to her as the student, even if it worked for others. In her younger days I'd taught her to play a few tunes on whistle, so I knew she could learn by ear/copying.... if suitably presented. She needed clearer technical explanation, blow by blow.)

[s1m0n]

You tend to need reeds to get really good squelch.

[david_h]

However, it does form a baseline argument in favour of attempting some kind of scientific analysis, definition and mensuration of the various aspects of tone and of how we produce and aurally experience it.

Yeah, bring on the graphs !

But I would have some empathy with whiskey or wine buffs being threatened with a gas chromatograph.

[Rob Sharer]

So, IMO, having an analytical understanding of what is going on in any technical task and being able to explain it therefrom can be a useful part of the learning-to-do-oneself or teaching process - not necessary for all, but very helpful to some.

Much more useful for learning to type than for learning to write poetry.


Rob

[jemtheflute]

You tend to need reeds to get really good squelch.

Off to the boggy places, eh, s1m0n?

Beware the Mewlips!