Definition of Irish Flute?

[KCJiang]

I need your help to clear my questions about the Irish Flute definition.

What is the definition of Irish Flute?
Is Bamboo Flute an Irish Flute?
Is non-D Flute an Irish Flute?

Thanks

[glauber]

Try these:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~hammie/KKless.htm
http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/irishflute.html
http://firescribble.net/flute/index.html

Now a couple quick answers to your questions:

• Irish flute is, in most cases, a wooden conical flute with 6 fingerholes and zero to eight keys.
• Bamboo flutes can be used to play Irish music, but they fall outside the definition above.
• Some Irish flutes are non-D: Eb and Bb flutes are popular; F flutes appear from time to time.

[Grixxly]

An additional question. I read on Hammy's website that more and more Irish music is being played in A, why is that?

Thanks,
Tony

[jim stone]

Don't know the answer except to suggest
that A is a dramatic key.

[sturob]

A is a nice key for fiddles. It may be to keep the whistles and whatnot else at bay. Heh.

Stuart

[glauber]

I blame the pipers! Darn pipers!

Anyway, no big deal. If it's A-mixolydian, then it's the same as D (2 sharps). If it's really in A, then you have to half-hole or use the key for the G#. And it's truly a very small number of tunes that are in A, at least around here. I think there are more tunes in Gm than A. Those are really fiddle tunes. And there's one famous reel that's in D dorian (kind of like Dm): Julia Delaney's. When one of these comes up, the fluters typically go get another beer.

g

[NicoMoreno]

Julia Delaney is easy to play on a D whistle

(Easier on a c whistle)

I see no reason it couldn't be done on a flute

[sturob]

I don't think I'd go by the written keys, Glauber. It may well be that in Chicago people session in D; in this kind of aural tradition, though, it's not uncommon to play stuff in whatever key's comfortable. A is quite comfortable on fiddles, so playing by ear they might just fall into A. Scottish trad is often in A, probably for that very reason.

I like playing Farewell to Erin in A myself . . . then you can play the whole tune on a flute! Without having to jump the low notes.

Stuart

[meemtp]

As Johnny Cunningham once said, when asked why so many tunes in A, "Because A is the fastest key"

Corin

[bradhurley]

I need your help to clear my questions about the Irish Flute definition.

What is the definition of Irish Flute?
Is Bamboo Flute an Irish Flute?
Is non-D Flute an Irish Flute?

Thanks

There really isn't any such thing as an "Irish flute" except, perhaps, the flutes made by Irish makers like Hammy Hamilton, Sam Murray, Eamonn Cotter, Desi Seery, etc.

As Glauber said, the term "Irish flute" is usually applied to wooden conical-bore simple-system flutes that are used to play Irish music. But those exact same flutes are also used by other players for classical music, klezmer music, jazz, and other genres, and in those cases they are not referred to as "Irish" flutes. In fact, many of those flutes are English or based on English designs.

A "non-D" simple system wooden flute might be considered an "Irish flute" if it's used for Irish music, but usually people refer to those flutes by their key, such as a Bb flute or a C flute.

I don't think of bamboo flutes as "Irish flutes," even those designed primarily for Irish music such as the bamboo flutes by Patrick Olwell or Chris Dawson. I think of them as "bamboo flutes that are good for playing Irish music."

[talasiga]

I need your help to clear my questions about the Irish Flute definition.

What is the definition of Irish Flute?
.....

This could be difficult.
Defining a flute is easy.
But who would dare define "Irish"?

A more fruitful question could be:-

"What is it to love Irish Flute?"

Please consider kindly.

[Gordon]

I assume the original question is about the instrument, and not the music. A person that plays Irish flute, as opposed to an Irish flute, can play anything that works for them, if they do it right (or, I suppose, even when they don't).
But labels are useful to get an idea across, especially if the person asking is not obsessed (as we seem to be) with clarification, or is not that familiar with the topic. So if I say that I play the Irish flute, it generally conjures up the image of a keyless conical wooden flute. That, as I think Brad mentioned, is a hybrid created over the past half century, mostly by Irish makers, to specifically play ITM, since most of the music does not need the keys. Obviously, these flutes are not limited to ITM, but that's generally how they came about, and what they're often called (or "folk flutes", if you want to lose the ethnic attachment).
They are most commonly in D; while that is not always the case, the exceptions are often just that -- exceptions. If you were to advise a beginner on which key to get an "Irish" flute in, assuming they want to play with others, the key of D would be your first suggestion (unless hand-size is a factor, but that's a different reasoning entirely). Same for whistles -- they come in all flavors, but take a beginner whistle class and you'll be supplied with a D.
The fact that many players play keyed flutes, and often antiques at that, once designed for classical music, simply confuses the issue as an answer for the casual questioner. The fact that, in reality, there is no hard and fast rule to define an Irish flute (the instrument), I think it really is the keyless 6 hole "stick". Beyond that description, you're now talking to a person that really has an idea what you're talking about, and they, and you, already know that there is no hard and fast definition.
Gordon

[bradhurley]

So if I say that I play the Irish flute, it generally conjures up the image of a keyless conical wooden flute.

Not for me. I see keys as well as keyless. While I suppose it's true that keyless flutes were developed mainly for playing Irish music, I think you could equally argue that keyless flutes were developed to provide a more affordable alternative to keyed ones. Yes you can play Irish music on a keyless flute, but having keys certainly makes life easier. I use the keys a lot, and most Irish players I know who have keyed flutes use the keys frequently.

To me, "Irish flute" is a vague term used generally to describe wooden simple-system flutes, keyed or keyless, that the player is using mainly for Irish music. The term "wooden flute" applies to the same instruments but implies a broader musical repertoire.

I don't think most Irish players would call their flutes "Irish flutes" except when talking to someone who's not familiar with the music or the instrument. "I hear you're a musician. What do you play?" asks someone in your office, "Oh, I play the Irish flute," you reply. But if an Irish fiddle player asks you what instrument you play, you'll say, "I play the flute," or if you want to be more specific, "the wooden flute" (so they know you don't play a silver flute) or "the timber flute" or "the concert flute" (which in Ireland usually means the wooden simple-system flute).

[jim stone]

Right. So there's a family resemblance between certain
flutes, with a certain paradigm combining most of
the families features, e.g. wooden, conical, in D, simple system,
maybe keyed, maybe not, of the sort used often
by Irish muscians to play ITM. Some flutes diverge from
the paradigm in small ways, (they're in Eb, say)
but they're close enough to still count as part of
the family. There are no sharp boundaries.
If somebody who comes up to me on
the street and asks 'What's that?' the single
best answer is 'An Irish flute.'

No underlying essence. Not worth making
into a deep question. Best

[andrew]

Anybody making a definition needs to know and bear in mind what the definition is for .Without that consideration one can just go round in circles .