Chiff and Fipple Forums

So, I've been playing whistle a while, and really like it.
But I was a bit breathtaken when I heard some Altan tunes where they played irish flute.

I've been thinking of getting a low whistle in the future, but now I think I'd rather get an irish flute for lower keys.

But, what are the main differences between transverse flute and irish flute?
To me, the irish one sounds a bit more mellow and "airy". But maybe it's just my imagination since I haven't heard much flute playing overall...

same as the difference between a poodle and a dog, eh

Rick Wilson's Historical Flutes Page

Denny wrote:same as the difference between a poodle and a dog, eh

Rick Wilson's Historical Flutes Page

That was a sloppy sentence by me.
I meant, what's the difference between irish flute and other transverse flutes?

Thanks for the link anyway, I'll check it out.

Today's Irish flute is (or is modeled on) the 19th century English flute. Distinguishing features are that it's usually made of wood and has a conical bore, which gives it a darker sound than the modern metal flute. And it has six open finger holes, which facilitate the ornamentation and sliding featured in the Irish style of playing (and which also affect the flute's sound).

Here's a good resource: http://www.firescribble.net/flute/

Rhadge wrote:
I meant, what's the difference between irish flute and other transverse flutes?
.....

This would require a tome to answer because other transverse flutes covers

dizi and other 6 finger hole diatonic bamboo flutes of the Orient (pre written history)
bansuri and other 6 finger hole diatonic bamboo flutes of South Asia (since pre written history)
classicised bansuri with an extra pinky hole (since c. 1940)
Medieval European diatonic 6 fingerhole wooden flutes
Renaissance 6 finger hole diatonic flutes
Baroque (chromatic through cross fingering) and 1 key flutes
Old Classical Chromatic simple sysyem keyed flutes based on Baroque flutes
Modern Classical Boehm type flutes
for starters.

Thats at least 8 chapters already. Then there is the comparative chapter covering the concert Irish flute. One hypothesis for that chapter could be: the Irish Flute - a partially incapacitated albeit louder Old Classical flute?

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Rhadge wrote:...But, what are the main differences between transverse flute and irish flute?...

Let me offer some explanation, please, for you have managed to ask a really big question.

With the understanding that the transverse flute could be so old that nobody really knows just how old it could be, it appears that the transverse flute could have its European origin within the past several centuries. The transverse flute of the Renaissance era, for instance, was a very simple instrument, and then in about the year 1695 the "one key" flute was developed, as the predecessor of all modern flutes.

The one key flute became known as the original "Baroque" flute, and that flute eventually had more, and even more, keys added to it.

Then, at sometime around the mid-nineteenth century, the multiple-keyed "Baroque" flute became adopted by the Irish, for use with the traditional music of Ireland.

However, the Irish music of that time apparently didn't need the additional keys, by and large, and so the tone holes of the additional keys often were blocked off.

Long story short, that's how today's modern, six holed Irish flute was developed.

So, to address your question, the transverse flute and the Irish flute are one and the same thing, all else excepted.

As you could imagine, that's just the beginning of the story, but please come back, for there are many here who could be glad to answer any questions you could have.

Then, of course there are the mush-brained idiots like me that really want to learn more about this poodle/dog thing... I'm intrigued!

(Seriously though, if it has to do with simple-system flutes - anything you could want to know can be found here; and extrapolated upon by knowledgeable folks like the fellow who posted before me).

Rhadge wrote:

Denny wrote:same as the difference between a poodle and a dog, eh

Rick Wilson's Historical Flutes Page

That was a sloppy sentence by me.
I meant, what's the difference between irish flute and other transverse flutes?

Thanks for the link anyway, I'll check it out.

yep it was....I still answered it: on Rick's site they'd be a subset of the 19th century simple system flutes

there's also Wooden Flute

and Terry McGee's site

G1 wrote:Then, of course there are the mush-brained idiots like me that really want to learn more about this poodle/dog thing... I'm intrigued!

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Thanks for your answers.

So I take it the irish flute doesn't have a full-scaled octave to play with, since C and C# are missing?

Well, if it's pitched in D, it has a full scale octave or two even in the key of D or G or various modal flavours of A & E etc.
But if you want low C or low C#, you need keys for them.

Just to reinforce what the others have been saying, really - if there is any such thing as an "Irish flute" (as opposed to an Irish style of playing the flute/the playing of Irish traditional music on the flute) then it is the very recent (post 1970) development, or rather retro-development of a keyless or selectively keyed wooden (or substitute material) cylinder-head-with-conoid-body flute based upon the English School Simple (or "Old" as they tended to be called at the time) System flutes of the mid C19th.

I would hesitate to call fully keyed (8 or more, to low C) modern made Simple System wooden flutes "Irish" as, even with modified for current use tuning and even if manufactured specifically for ITM players, they are essentially true reproductions of Simple System originals which were Classical instruments. Calling the antique originals "Irish" is a misapprehension (from the most familiar current use for them) and misleading, even if referring to one of the fairly rare antiques actually made in Ireland and even if actually being used for ITM, as that would almost certainly not have been its original intended use!

My personal preference would be not to use the term at all.

there ya go....bloody trouble maker, ya are