Chiff and Fipple Forums

Anybody read this article in the NY Science times?

It got me thinking, especially after I looked at an old bamboo flute I'd stored in with my antiques in a plastic container with sponge and hygrometer and found that there were white specs collecting around the mouthpiece. Looked at them in a magnifying loop and some were just what looked like salt crystals. Others had legs and moved though, and with a little research I found that they might have been mold mites .
Needless to say I did a thorough cleaning of all contents and it hasn't been a problem since, but got me a bit worried I can tell you.

I don't know. Between cracks from too little humidity, mold from too much, contact allergies and tennon strangulation it is a wonder that anyone can play a wooden flute at all . I plan to keep soldiering on though. Just something special for me about a wooden simple system flute that doesn't directly translate to a plastic one (not that the latter don't have their place...).

I believe Pipers' Lung is a well known hazard of mouth-blown bag-piping - and they do pay some attention (if they have any sense I know, I know - they play the dang things in the first place....) to bag maintenance!

What is/the symptoms of pipers lung? I thought filling the bag was a one way job (If it is air escaping backwards that's concerned)

I saw this article and have been concerned ever since. I still have a sore throat that's lasted since I had a bad virus in February/March.

So, how can I clean out my all wood flute? What should I use to be sure all bacteria, etc. are eradicated?

Not to get medical, Jason ... But many, many people I know (including myself) of all stripes, musicians and non, here in California were hit with the same thing you're describing. An extremely nasty virus/bacterium that lasts forever and refuses to go away. I was bedridden for 4 months, and had a flare-up again as recently as last week.

By all means, clean your flute. But, cold comfort, that's probably not your culprit in this case.

Does this (with a bit of extrapolation) make you feel better ?
http://faculty.vetmed.ucdavis.edu/facul ... gboard.htm

Those natural anti-pest chemicals in the wood that can give us allergies may have a positive side.

I sometimes get sick of making them, after 30 years.

Casey

I sometimes get sick of making them, after 30 years.

Casey

You could consider retiring if that's the case. It seems a lot of your posts are your various qualms with the flute making business in general. Get to playing some music for a change and run an underground puppy mill or cock fighting ring for some extra cash.

Most important thing is to never loan an instrument to someone who has a cold or the flu. I've caught a few doozies this way. When an instrument arrives - especially if in winter or if something horrible like mold growth has happened to it, I wash it down with a high proof alcohol to kill anything living on it and in it.

There have been a few flutes I've had to work on this last winter with pretty bad mold growth that were kept overhumidified as well as oiled with grocery store almond oil.

Also, I stop playing flutes at even the smallest hint of a cold coming. This sometimes throws a monkey wrench into finishing up flutes and mailing them out. But the last thing I want to be is a vector!

Fortunately, one doesn't stick a flute in one's mouth - or at least they shouldn't. I've seen a few players who for some reason lick the embouchure before playing. Its kind of gross.

There are commercial bore sanitizers available at woodwind shops. Alcohol can be used as well, with little detriment to the wood though on some flutes this might etch any varnish. Oiling after treatment is important.

From what I have read in the past, some woods such as blackwood may have antifungal and antibiotic properties, by virtue of the somewhat toxic resins found in the wood cells. This is not the case for flutes made from Delrin and other plastics. But then, I suppose you could theoretically run those through the dishwasher! Or at least wash them in the sink with detergent.

Casey

"Gaitero" wrote "You could consider retiring if that's the case."

No chance of that. Being self employed and dependent upon musicians to pay me means I have almost zilch as far as a retirement plan. So flute making beats the alternative. I'll be doing this into my 70s and 80s should I be around that long, and able to function.

But when I am doing a large batch o flutes with a few impatient clients nipping at my heels and I am running late due to colds and other things, it does get tiring occasionally.

Casey

Where there is mold, there are fungus mites. They don't like para-dichlorobenzene ( moth balls) but then neither do people. . .I believe it is listed as a carcinogen now. Camphorated oil would be a close second choice.
An extremely dilute solution of peroxide is an excellent fungicide and bacteristat, say one part in ten of common 3 per cent drugstore peroxide. What we used to use in the mushroom lab to good effect. Absolute alcohol is good as well, but as Casey notes can harm finishes.
I still have nightmares from viewing fungal mites under magnification traversing my mushroom cultures. Yech!

Bob

As for cleaning with alcohol, 70% is what is used in labs and I believe is more effective than other concentrations because of the way microbes interact with it.

People, people!!

There's a perfectly simple solution here.

Just don't breathe *in* through your flute. It's not a harmonica, for crying out loud.

Don't lick it either; it's not a popsicle.

Now if you're concerned about the state of your lower lip, just apply enough alcohol on it, before and after playing. (Whiskey is recommended.)

Seriously though, this should be common sense. It's probably not worse than your toothbrush (and I've heard some awful stories about people getting nasty diseases from that as well, but then again, caries is probably still the bigger risk) so a little common sense cleanliness should do just fine, I guess.

And, as stated, wood has some positive properties when it comes to germs.

Jem and Mr. Blackwood: I doubt that "Pipers Lung" is an actual, diagnosiable disorder/ illlness. I've never found any litigmate research to back up the "condition." I'm a piper as well as playing the wood flutes. Bagpipes can be a source of some bad vermin if not properly maintained. With the GHB's you have a bag that is dark, moist and warm--sounds like a perfect breeding ground for all kinds of stuff to me. I'll confine my comments to the GHB's. Newer advancements have made the instrument less of a potential source of pathogens. For example a proper blow pipe that is kept clean and the one way valve is properly installed and maintained is a must. The synthetic bag w/ a zipper is a great advancement and allows the inside of the bag to dry out between playing sessions and when stored. Hide bags and some of the stuff they pour into them have long been suspected of causing problems health wise. The development of the synthetic drone reed is a plus as compared to the older style cane reeds that retained moisture. The available moisture control systems that some use in their bags, do keep the pipes more dry and less exposed to excessive moisture and the potential for vermin growth, some are more effective and efficient than others. The idea, again in my opinion, is to keep your instruments clean and properly maintained. I hate to see bagpipes and wooden instruments, in general, take a beating, I think it discourages people from taking up an activity that has huge personal benefits, both physical and emotional. My wife's nephew, a professional tuba player, says that cleaning out the "spit valve" on the tuba can get your attention quickly, so it's not just pipes and timber flutes that have the potential for unwanted stuff growing in them; franklly, I think it's many of the wind instruments.

Last week, got a new, beautiful flute from Casey Burns. He talks in depth on the proper maintance and care of the wood flute. He suggests, at least for my flute, washing hands before playing, when done playing, shake out the moisture, keep it humidified at about 40% in a good case and regular, proper oiling. I do the same thing with my bagpipes and other wood instruments. Bottom line, I don't think "Pipers Lung" is a valid medical condition, I highly doubt it, and if it is, and I'm wrong, is the exclusive source of the disease the bagpipe or are other instruments to share the shame?

an seanduine wrote: An extremely dilute solution of peroxide is an excellent fungicide and bacteristat, say one part in ten of common 3 per cent drugstore peroxide. What we used to use in the mushroom lab to good effect. Absolute alcohol is good as well, but as Casey notes can harm finishes.
I still have nightmares from viewing fungal mites under magnification traversing my mushroom cultures. Yech!

Bob

Thanks for the reminder Bob.

When I restore wooden antiques, I use 5% Hydrogen Peroxide, diluted down.

I used to have more of a grounding in microbes - but now it's just a hazy memory. Alcohol does not actually kill off the fungal spores - does it? Hydrogen Peroxide, on the other hand, will oxidise their spore walls and breakthrough to kill off regermination in the future. If the mould is in the inside of the flute, applying Hydrogen Peroxide should not cause too much damage in careful hands - at least it leaves no residue and does not leave any odour.

Sadly, the Ozone method, will probably clobber the wooden flute. Exposing to a UV light source should work, but the angle of entry into a flute makes it too challenging to use either ozone or UV methods - unless the fungus is on the surface of the wood.

I was quite surprised when I went into a store to ask for distilled alcohol. I was asked to furnish proof that I was over 18 lol. I told the pretty checkout girl I was old enough .. to be her father (teenage father that is ).