Traditional vs. Modern playing

[djm]

Keenan attributes his sound to the time he spent playing R&B, not to Doran.

djm

[MikeyLikesIt]

Keenan attributes his sound to the time he spent playing R&B, not to Doran.

djm

Well, I meant to have quoted both PJ's and djm's posts. The liner notes with the quote from Ennis came from Paddy's 1975 album, IMHO before his "R&B days" started to show in his playing. And since we're holding Ennis in such high regard, shouldn't we take his word for it that Keenan's playing at that point in his life has a very Doranesque (there's another one of those -esque words) sound?

[oliver]

Should have said "the early Keenan" sounds like Doran maybe ? I think if you compare recordings, it's quite obvious.

[PJ]

... very Doranesque (there's another one of those -esque words) sound?

I think this thread has fulfilled it's quota for inventing new words .

Personally, I don't think anything I've heard by Paddy Keenan resembles anything I've heard from Johnny Doran. However, I've only hear a handful of Doran tunes, so I'm certainly no expert. Ennis, on the other hand, had spent evenings in Doran's caravan listening to Johnny, so who knows what he heard.

Polemicists and apologists unite!!!

[No E]

The Ennis clip left me wanting more, but I found myself getting bored after about a minute of the McSherry clip (which I blame on the synthesizer accompaniment rather than the piping).

Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

No E

[Joseph E. Smith]

Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

No E

OK, I'll bite, what do they say about opinions?

[simonknight]

The Ennis clip left me wanting more, but I found myself getting bored after about a minute of the McSherry clip (which I blame on the synthesizer accompaniment rather than the piping).

Just my opinion and you know what they say about opinions...

No E

Same here. The McSherry clip was entertaining on the first hearing, then I noticed the corny delay. Not much to make me want to listen to it again. Whereas there are always new things to hear with players like Ennis.

In the world of jazz, John Coltrane is a similar figure. It's hard to find a contemporary player who hasn't been influenced by him. Modern recordings are sometimes better, some players have taken the technique of the saxophone a step further and deliver flawless performances, but very few have challenged Coltrane's innovation and musicality.

[uilleannpiper]

I,ve been learning both tunes lately and love them both. I think the McSherry one is Breton. If you play it, you'll realise that certain parts of the tune repeat themselves quite a bit, especially in the A section. And, as I've discovered, it's quite difficult to get anywhere near the feeling and control that he displays. Some of his sliding is really out there too.

[boxguy]

I agree with Uileann Piper.
His slides are out of this world. McSherry is a huge name in Irish music and this is for obvious reasons. I listen alot to Breton music and it can be very repetative for the uneducated on it (I am originaly Breton).
To me McSherrys playing resembles that of some of the best Breton musicians. So often Irish musicians get it so wrong with Breton music.

Ennis is great but really, why are we comparing them.
What would they think if they read this? I presume they would be annoyed to have people of less ability criticising them.
Thats presuming Paddy Keenan, Liam O Flynn etc arent all ready involved in this discussion.

Lets compare someone here to Johnny Doran.
Anyone have any suggestions?

D.B

[boxguy]

Why are we not praising these musicians rather than being so critical of what they are doing?

[oliver]

Yes, "Doinna" is a recent Breton composition. What I hear in its rendition here is what I'd call "opera style", very lyrical, reminiscent of 19th century romanticism... that could suit some Breton tunes.
Irish slow airs are not about that and shouldn't be played that way, their phrasing being so different, but it's often the case nowadays I think...

[Joseph E. Smith]

Why are we not praising these musicians rather than being so critical of what they are doing?

I do not think we're being too critical of them. We are discussing (or attempting to discuss) the differences between the two.

Neither of the them (Ennis, McSherry) are going to please everyone all of the time, personal tastes being what they are. However, both have something to offer newer pipers. It just so happens that (for me) Seamus Ennis has more to offer than John McSherry does at the time of this writing.

On the other side of that coin, by being critical of the piping offered here, we are in point of fact, bringing to the fore what piping is about, what it means to us and what we want out of it all. Critical discussion can be a valuable learning tool, just as long as it remains unbiased and fair.

[oliver]

Why are we not praising these musicians rather than being so critical of what they are doing?

Simply praising wouldn't be very interesting, it seems.
I think talking about them (being critical and all) is real praising. Have you ever seen long discussions about poor musicians ?

[Joseph E. Smith]

Have you ever seen long discussions about poor musicians ?

[Cayden]

Have you ever seen long discussions about poor musicians ?

Well, to be honest..