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At the risk of being pelted with rotten fruit, can a piper pipe without the bag and bellows? I'm after the lovely tone and "flavor" of the Uilleann pipes (no drones necessary) for recording in larger ensembles... no sessions or live gigs. Can a chanter sound good all by itself?

No! Uh-uh! That would be BAD!!!

There's a reason why these things come attached to a bag and bellows and it's not just to make us pipers look funny.

Unlike their mouth-blown retarded cousins, uilleann pipe reeds are very sensitive and could rot if exposed to hot, wet, dirty, nasty, acidic, slobbery, bacteria-riddled human saliva and lung vapor. If you blow your own reed, you will go blind and insane.

One of the features of the uilleann pipes is that it is bellows-blown, not mouth-blown, so you will need the bellows to supply air to the bag, and the bag to control the pressure on the chanter. Because it is never exposed to the moisture of breath or saliva from a mouth, the dry double-reed in the uilleann chanter can do so much more, like reach two+ octaves. Because it is closed against the leg, you can do stacatto playing, etc.

Whatever it is you are thinking of, it isn't UPs.

djm

noshinchan wrote:At the risk of being pelted with rotten fruit, can a piper pipe without the bag and bellows? I'm after the lovely tone and "flavor" of the Uilleann pipes (no drones necessary) for recording in larger ensembles... no sessions or live gigs. Can a chanter sound good all by itself?

Pardon me if I've missed something here but what is wrang with the bag and bellows being attached???? is this ensemble playing in a toilet?and ye need the elbow room or something?Liam OFlynn seemed to manage fine in the Brendan Voyage
Slan go foill
Liam
Have a nice day you all..............

djm wrote:One of the features of the uilleann pipes is that it is bellows-blown, not mouth-blown, so you will need the bellows to supply air to the bag, and the bag to control the pressure on the chanter. Because it is never exposed to the moisture of breath or saliva from a mouth, the dry double-reed in the uilleann chanter can do so much more, like reach two+ octaves. Because it is closed against the leg, you can do stacatto playing, etc.

Whatever it is you are thinking of, it isn't UPs.

djm

not strictly true (the bit about the original poster not thinking of the uilleann pipes). i have a relatively inexpensive Pakistani chanter that came with a bit of rubber hose attached to the reed cap, and, horrifying though it may be in theory, i've been learning the basics - fingering, my D and G scales, and a couple of rudimentary tunes - by mouth-blowing it, just because i don't have the wherewithal for a bag and bellows right now and i am just not possessed of the patience that would be required of me to gaze longingly at my pretty chanter for months without playing it (i know - i tried). and while i can't play it that way for long - at least not with the correct intonation - because the moisture collecting on the reed makes my C# go flat, it nevertheless is unmistakably the sound of the uilleann pipes - or at least one of them - that i'm producing. and it's inspiring and i love it.

and i've been playing my chanter this way - sucking and shaking the moisture out of it after i practice, taking it apart and leaving it to dry that way overnight - for about a month now, and with no ill effect that i can discern (bear in mind that i'm also using plastic reeds).

i know it's not kosher piping practice from a philosophical/theoretical/ethical point of view (and that the chanter is not designed for it), but from a practical point of view it works fine as far as this absolute newbie can tell. it's much like playing an oboe, and it's let me get started on $50.00 instead of $300.00. and i figure, very worst-case scenario, i *do* ruin my chanter (though i really don't think that's going to happen) and i need to replace it. so i'll buy another one for another $50.00 and be good to go.

would i do this with a Wooff chanter? uh, i don't freakin' think so. nor a Gallagher chanter, nor any other multi-hundred-dollar handmade chanter. but with my $50.00 Pakistani chanter with the rubber hose that says "DARCO PETROL & DIESEL HOSE" on the cap? You bet your booties i will, and consequences be damned. it's well worth it to me to start getting the feel of the instrument, to start learning, and to start making that *sound*.

k - bring on the rotten fruit. >:)

oh! forgive me - i just re-read the original question and saw that the querent wants to *record* this way. um...i don't think that would work very well. in my limited experience, the behavior of the mouth-blown chanter - the tonality, the responsiveness, the range, etc. - tends to change pretty dramatically - and not for the better - within the first ten minutes (or less) of playing. unless you can slap down perfect tracks on the first run every time and are content to do so on a maximum of, say, two tracks per session, you'll spend a lot more of your expensive studio time fiddling with your instrument trying to get it to behave (and failing) than you will actually playing. don't bother.

walt

Good on you. There will come a time when you will want (and can afford) the real McCoy. When that time comes, you will have an idea of what to do with your hands, where a practice set is vital, is teaching you what to do with your elbow...and that gets tricky for the unaccustomed.
I have absolutely no problem with anyone getting started @ $50.00, with a mouth blown chanter, as long as the you learn the fingering correctly. But if you continue, you will get bitten by the 'bug' pretty badly, and it is then that you will need to add the bellows...nothing else will be able to satiate your growing hunger for the instrument. Oh, and don't forget, 'Uilleann' does mean elbow.

Thanks. You are indeed answering my questions. The main issue is cost, and though I plan to have a good set fairly soon, everyone has warned me away from the cheap mouth-blown practice chanters. "Expensive firewood", etc.
The main trouble I'm hearing is that moisture from my mouth will quickly cause intonation troubles. The other question not yet addressed is the tone: I have a GHB practice chanter (with synthetic reed) and though the sound vaguely reminds me of pipes, it is a thin, anemic, whiny little sound not suited for anyone to hear.... purely for "practice" only. Does the UP mouth-blown chanter sound okay on its own?
Again, it's not a space issue... plenty of room in the bedroom studio... but a desire to get started after 6 months of reading, setting aside funds only to have them needed elsewhere, etc.

Nothing beats the real thing, but...

GHB electronic chanters, degerpipes etc, are widely used for finger practice. I use one for small-pipe practice and it is excellent for long plane flights, or for practicing after bagpipe curfew.

I would love to have an electronic Uilleann pipe to satisfy those 3am chanter deliriums.

Of course, it would be without most of a real chanter's expression, but it would be a useful tool to memorise tunes.

Lee Sei-Macfhearchair

mukade wrote:Nothing beats the real thing, but...

GHB electronic chanters, degerpipes etc, are widely used for finger practice. I use one for small-pipe practice and it is excellent for long plane flights, or for practicing after bagpipe curfew.

I would love to have an electronic Uilleann pipe to satisfy those 3am chanter deliriums.

Of course, it would be without most of a real chanter's expression, but it would be a useful tool to memorise tunes.

Lee Sei-Macfhearchair

not sure, but you might be interested in my posts on <a href="http://chiffboard.mati.ca/viewtopic.php ... 5919">this thread</a>.

walt

Instead of a mouthblown chanter with plastic reed, you may consider running out to your nearest pond to steal a duck. That way you'll get the lovely experience of squeezing the "bag" in addition to the lovely quacking sound of the synthetic reed/mouthblown chanter combination.

Dionys

Dionys, which end of the duck do you blow into?

djm

I, personally speaking of course, wouldn't blow into any entrance of a duck. That's purely my own personal tastes speaking.

Dionys

Dionys wrote:Instead of a mouthblown chanter with plastic reed, you may consider running out to your nearest pond to steal a duck. That way you'll get the lovely experience of squeezing the "bag" in addition to the lovely quacking sound of the synthetic reed/mouthblown chanter combination.

Dionys

that is a most excellent idea. really the only advantage that a regular practice set would have over the duck setup is that it stays where you put it when you're done practicing.

and you don't have to feed it as much.

and it doesn't leave bagpipe doo-doo about the house.

but to the true musician, these are non-issues. it's off to the pond i go!

>:)

I have never heard one of these mouth blown uilleann chanters, and I am assuming that the reed is synthetic. Synthetic chanter reeds, no matter how well made, do not even come close to the tone and pitch of a cane chanter reed....yet. I understand your need to save a few bucks, I am a full time medical student and I am strapped for cash myself. When you become comfortable with fingering the scale, I would advise you move on to a bellows blown practice set. It really is the only way to truly get the 'feel' of and for the instrument. Also, maybe it will help not to consider buying a practice set a vast expenditure, rather, consider it an investment. Maybe cutting back on Guinness indulgences (if you have any) may contribute also. Good luck.

It's only $50... go for it!