Playing chanters of a different pitch on pipes

[DjUntzUntz]

Hey guys,

I was wondering. Are you able to play chanters with different pitches on the same set of pipes but change the pitch of the pipes/drones a bit to bring it on the pitch of the chanter?

For example:

D --> C#
C --> C#
B <-- --> Bb

So would you be able to make the drones of a B set a Bb pitch? (and thus play a Bb chanter on it?)

[PJ]

Some drones will tune up or down a semitone without too much loss in stability or balance.

[robehickman]

first off, I know little about this, but while reserching how to get started on my set of border pipes, I found mention of different keyed chanters. One point was that the drones can be set to harmonise anouther note besides the tonic.

[PJ]

first off, I know little about this, but while reserching how to get started on my set of border pipes, I found mention of different keyed chanters. One point was that the drones can be set to harmonise anouther note besides the tonic.

Yes, but this is something different. D drones will harmonise with tunes played in D major and minor, G major and minor, A major and minor, but not so well with tunes in, for example, E minor. However, if you use a C chanter to play over D drones, a tune in E minor becomes a tune in D minor and sounds great over D drones.

[DjUntzUntz]

first off, I know little about this, but while reserching how to get started on my set of border pipes, I found mention of different keyed chanters. One point was that the drones can be set to harmonise anouther note besides the tonic.

Yes, but this is something different. D drones will harmonise with tunes played in D major and minor, G major and minor, A major and minor, but not so well with tunes in, for example, E minor. However, if you use a C chanter to play over D drones, a tune in E minor becomes a tune in D minor and sounds great over D drones.

But you would also be able to flatten down D drones to C# and play them with a C# or perhaps even a C chanter?

[PJ]

Depends on the drones and reeds.

[mke_mick]

I actually wrote an article on the technique PJ describes, in The Pipers Review ("Playing a C Chanter Over D Drones"). PM me if you'd like a copy.

But I realize that isn't your actual question: you want to lower your drones' pitch. Thanks in part to the aforementioned article, lately I've spent lots of time mixing and matching chanters with drones, and my best advice would be to make a new set of drone reeds for this purpose.

It strikes me as unlikely that drone reeds that play well in one key (e.g., D) would be as stable in a lower key, unless (1) you're very lucky, (2) the tuning slides are nearly closed when the drones play D and therefore have "room to grow," and (3) your C# chanter plays across both octaves at very nearly the same range of bag-pressures as your D chanter.

But, if you make a new set of "flat" drone reeds, you can make them a bit longer than your original reeds, and you can tune them to respond properly at whatever specific playing-pressure works best for your C# chanter.

Tim Britton has written of another trick for bringing drone pitches down: you can shim each drone's tuning slide. I've done this by inserting a drinking straw (slit up the side so its diameter becomes variable) into the bore. This will flatten the drone slightly, but also with a loss of volume (which may be a good thing, since your flat chanter is probably quieter than your D chanter). If you use a "bendable" staw, you can use the corrugated part as a "stop" that prevents the straw from sliding too far into the drone. (You'll want it to be removable!)

Good luck!
Mick

[lordofthestrings]

For years I've been really interested in the possibilities of pairing a chanter with a set of drones tuned a whole step above the chanter's bell note (such as D drones with a C chanter) to allow the drone effect for tunes in the minor mode of the chanter's supertonic. Does anyone know of any videos or recordings of someone doing this? I've never run into any or ever heard someone playing this way. And mke_mick, I'd be very interested to read your article.

Sorry if I'm steering this thread off topic, for me this question has been one of those 'always wanted to know but was afraid to ask' sort of things. In keeping with the topic of re-tuning drones to different keys, I thought I read somewhere about a set Dave Williams made that was in concert pitch, but the drones had rings that could be slid to tune them each to E without the need to majorly adjust reeds or slam the slides up, etc. Anyone else heard of this? Any pipemakers out there doing anything like this? It seems like a hella useful feature to have on a set to me!

[PJ]

Does anyone know of any videos or recordings of someone doing this?

On my copy of the Saville Suite CD, there are a few Planxty tunes added on at the end, from Time Dance (circa 1981). On it, Liam O'Flynn plays the Humours of Barrack Street on a C chanter over D drones (accompanied by a bodhran).

[Calum]

I thought I read somewhere about a set Dave Williams made that was in concert pitch, but the drones had rings that could be slid to tune them each to E without the need to majorly adjust reeds or slam the slides up, etc. Anyone else heard of this? Any pipemakers out there doing anything like this? It seems like a hella useful feature to have on a set to me!

Can't comment on Dave's practice, but this is common on Northumbrian pipes, where drones typically have one or two tuning rings to get them one or two whole steps up in pitch.

[geoff wooff]

There can be problems of Temperament when you do this. If your chanter is near to Equal Temperament then you'll likely get away with it. If your chanter is tuned so that each note makes the most pleasing harmony to the standard drone pitch then (usually) you'd not feel the need to change your drone pitch unless you moved further away from the home keys....
and then ,on the other hand, if you did use a drone of a different pitch with the (Just tuned ) chanter you may come against some less than sweet intervals.
Suck-it -and-see.

[rorybbellows]

I thought I read somewhere about a set Dave Williams made that was in concert pitch, but the drones had rings that could be slid to tune them each to E without the need to majorly adjust reeds or slam the slides up, etc. Anyone else heard of this? Any pipemakers out there doing anything like this? It seems like a hella useful feature to have on a set to me!

http://imageshack.us/f/244/img4062fa7.jpg/

RORY

[mke_mick]

There can be problems of Temperament when you do this. If your chanter is near to Equal Temperament then you'll likely get away with it. If your chanter is tuned so that each note makes the most pleasing harmony to the standard drone pitch then (usually) you'd not feel the need to change your drone pitch unless you moved further away from the home keys....
and then ,on the other hand, if you did use a drone of a different pitch with the (Just tuned ) chanter you may come against some less than sweet intervals.
Suck-it -and-see.

Important point! That's one thing I wish I'd mentioned in my "C Chanter Over D Drones" article: due to Just Intonation, some e-minor/A-major tunes definitely sound better than others when you drone on (relative) E. But for many tunes it sounds nice indeed, and so far I've found that it usually sounds better than playing e-minor tunes over (relative) D. As you say, you have to try it, listen closely, and be honest with yourself about the results.

Using the hammer just because one is handy, is always a sin, no?

Regards,
Mick

[rorybbellows]

There can be problems of Temperament when you do this. .

A case in point is Fsharp(major third). On a D chanter the Fsharp in tuned 14cent flat to tune with the D drones. If you play that D chanter over C drones the F sharp now becomes a minor third and a minor third should be tuned 16cent sharp . You will be out of tune by 30 cent. Not very pleasant.

RORY

[Driftwood]

Yes, E modal tunes with drones is difficult. Maybe the best bet is to use a G drone if you've got one. Then the only really out of tune notes are the two E's which will need to be a bit flatter. On some chanters the upper octave e is a bit flat anyway, so maybe some tape or shading on one of the bottom two holes and lift the chanter for the upper e ?