Pipes- how is value determined?

[Lorenzo]

Owning a Ferrari doesn't make you a race car driver.

...but it sure beats driving a truck.

[glands]

Owning a Ferrari doesn't make you a race car driver.

...but it sure beats driving a truck.

Or anything else for that matter!!

[glands]

I had to figure out a way to be faster than Robbie Hannan!!

[anima]

There's nothing "false" about the cost of an instrument. If $ changes hands that's real...true...not false.

Perhaps I should have said value instead of cost. But, I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one I would think.

[glands]

There's nothing "false" about the cost of an instrument. If $ changes hands that's real...true...not false.

Perhaps I should have said value instead of cost. But, I think you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this one I would think.

Value and cost usually do not have anything to do with one another. For example, I have invested $10,000 in my C set...but its value, to me, is priceless.

My D set, though it played beautifully, due to a multitude of factors, was no longer of value to me and I considered it less than priceless. I considered it worth $16,250.

[anima]

There are always a few chuckleheads out there with more money than sense who can drive the price of anything beyond the means of any reasonable person

[glands]

There are always a few chuckleheads out there with more money than sense who can drive the price of anything beyond the means of any reasonable person

Saaay whaaaat?

The guy who bought my Quinn D set is a nice man. He is not a chucklehead.

I sold the set to recoup my investment in the pipes, shipping costs for the D set back and forth to VT, and interest lost on longstanding deposits for two sets. I broke even. That's what I wanted to do.

Further, $16,250 is fair market value for Quinn set in D. That's what Quinn should be charging for the sets.

[anima]

That was a general statement on my part Glandman, I wasn't meaning to call out you or any other chucklehead out there in particular.


What does DMQ charge now for a D set?

[glands]

That was a general statement on my part Glandman, I wasn't meaning to call out you or any other chucklehead out there in particular.


What does DMQ charge now for a D set?

I do not know the answer to that question. Ask Mr Quinn.

[irishpiper]

There are always a few chuckleheads out there with more money than sense who can drive the price of anything beyond the means of any reasonable person

Although YOU may think the price is high for Glands K&Q D set…I am willing to bet dimes to dollars that there would have been MANY people chomping at the bit had Glands put that D set on the open market..probally would have had a bidding war..and the price would have been over 17k

I would never be able to afford a set of that value but I would never sling mud in the eye of the person that can..supply and demand is a killer..

And since when has a reasonable person ever played the pipes?

[glands]

There are always a few chuckleheads out there with more money than sense who can drive the price of anything beyond the means of any reasonable person

Although YOU may think the price is high for Glands K&Q D set…I am willing to bet dimes to dollars that there would have been MANY people chomping at the bit had Glands put that D set on the open market..probally would have had a bidding war..and the price would have been over 17k

I would never be able to afford a set of that value but I would never sling mud in the eye of the person that can..supply and demand is a killer..

And since when has a reasonable person ever played the pipes?

Yes! We are ALL unreasonable!!!

[Brazenkane]

Personally, I feel it's difficult to say what David, or anyone should sell a set for. There are a variety of reasons this, so lets get the materials and putting food on the table/getting paid for one's time, out of the way. That's implicit in the cost.

From there, a maker of David's stature (and a few others "up there") have earned, dare I say, a wee bit of slush in which they can decide on an asking price. Since we're talking about Quinn (and Koehler, who I'll include), I would venture to say that ethics are just as important to them as price. In other words, there might be a musician who has put in their time, who is making lovely music, who is a gentleman/woman, and who just needs a good instrument, but , is struggling to come up with the funds.

Over the years, I've had conversations with both David and Benedict about the very topic. Aside from the priority of getting good instruments out into the world, they are cognizant of who "gets" their instruments. Mind you, I'm not here to say "deep dish discounts" are available because any old punter cries poor. Simultaneously, I think I can say with some confidence that K&Q try to price their sets so players can afford them, while still earning a living! And, as I now understand it (from 4 top shelf makers), the afore mentioned is a difficult endeavor to say the least. So, there is a dichotomy that I presume David & Benedict approach in their transactions; a reasonable number for the specific job at hand that won't "hurt" them, and one that won't fleece the musician, and in a broader sense the community at large. It's a rather tough spot to be in ... a balancing act of fairness of price for the work delivered, and the musician.

One maker said, "If we'd charge what it'd cost in the real world, nobody could afford anything and nobody would build anything in the end. It is such a small market and it is the wrong place for trying to make huge profit. It's a kind of a community, its wealth is in what is shared."

Too, some of the concerns I've heard due to this long thread are honestly troubling. Players (some who are well known) have conveyed worry in that they simply will never be able to afford a great set because these posts will affectively caused prices across the board to rise sharply.

....... time will tell.......

[glands]

Kynch, your points are well-taken. It's somewhat curious that you and others imply that people shouldn't be able to acquire sets because they can front the $ but that good musicians deserve great sets at reasonable prices. The points seem counterintuitive to economics and reflect a sense of musicians entitlement. What about the top shelf pipe makers? Why shouldn't Mr Quinn be able to charge $16,000 for a set of pipes?

[Mr.Gumby]

It's early and I am pre-coffee or breakfast, never a good time for nuanced posting, I know from experience, so forgive me in advance if anyone takes offence.

Economics is not not the be all end all of things. Given all the time and both physical and mental effort going into making a set of pipes I think it is worth considering there's more reward for the maker in having a set of pipes in the hands of someone who is a fine player who can make the instrument sing than selling it to some plank who knows all about buying and selling them but little about how to really play them and so will never use the instrument to its full potential.

[glands]

It's early and I am pre-coffee or breakfast, never a good time for nuanced posting, I know from experience, so forgive me in advance if anyone takes offence.

Economics is not not the be all end all of things. Given all the time and both physical and mental effort going into making a set of pipes I think it is worth considering there's more reward for the maker in having a set of pipes in the hands of someone who is a fine player who can make the instrument sing than selling it to some plank who knows all about buying and selling them but little about how to really play them and so will never use the instrument to its full potential.

I see your points and agree to some but disagree to some extent with others. Any given recipient of a set of pipes will play them 20-40 years. If that, depending on age at acquisition. The pipes are for all present and future players. It's nice for a maker to have the set in the hands of someone who will do it justice now, I suppose, but that is short term gain, perhaps self-aggrandisment, and the pipemaker cannot control the subsequent exchanges of hands. Nor should they! Do you think Leo Rowsome ONLY parsed out chanters to those who passed the tests of musicianship? I seriously doubt it. I suppose he got sets into the hands of learners who showed enthusiasm for the pipes. And, I suspect that if you wanted a full set...you paid whatever premium was asked. Note there are far more Rowsome chanters than there are full sets. This likely reflects the economy of the times and also the want to get practice sets into the hands of learners and not accomplished musicians.

Where does that comment about "some plank" who knows little about how to really play them come from? Do you promote the hypothesis that people who have money to buy sets aren't good players? Your logic astounds me. Do you hear me saying that those who fecked off in school and didn't set themselves up to earn a good wage don't deserve to play top shelf pipes regardless of musicianship? No. I say the top shelf pipes are just that and those who want to play them figure out a way to pay for them. We are talking $16,000. That's not a lot of money. A guinness and a pack of cigarettes a day.... and you're one-fifth the way there! The concept of how to cut some things out of ones life and to save for something special is lost on society today.