Earschplittinloudenboomerpipes

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:49 am

Hello all,

I was wondering if it isin't true that most modern makers of wide bore concert pitch pipes are mostly trying to create instruments that cut through sessions and bands, through the noise of guitars, bodhrans, chitter chatter, etc. Like Gay McKeon's pipes, really really trebly and bright. Was any of this consciously sought after, in terms of choice of wood-blackwood instead of ebony, perhaps, since blackwood has more of this trebliness, less warm tone to it; or the kind of power-line hum drones many modern sets have. The whole effect is kind of Highland, if you ask me, but since most pipers live in these kind of environs it's what the market demands, I suppose.
I've always liked the tone of certain Taylor pipes better, myself. They usually definitely had more interesting drones than Rowsome's; none of this sardine can stuff. Like Sean Folsom's pipes, probably a Taylor copy, actually. A really beautiful warm sound, very harmonic, and plenty loud, too. Why don't more modern makers go for that kind of sound?

djm · Post by **djm** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:05 am

Kevin, I'm not a pipemaker (would that more of them would provide input on this forum), but I understand that African blackwood is used due to its availability and ease of use/workability.

The widebore/concert style set was developed to meet the needs of playing in halls before the days of mics and amplification. Also to make oneself heard over the (then) new fangled accordians and concertinas. So, in a way, you are correct. They were developed to overcome the same problems that pipers can face in sessions today.

That being said, there are many session musicians who get really p***d at pipers who try to drown everyone else out, just as they do with accordians and concertinas, the difference being that accordians and concertinas can control their volume somewhat, whereas pipers with loud sets cannot.

As to the tone, I believe a lot more of the brightness of the tone is determined by how one sets up the reed than the type of wood the set is made from. I happen to like Gay McKeown's sound, but I think we are getting into a matter of personal taste here.

djm

Idwood · Post by **Idwood** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:05 am

As I already mentioned in one or two other threads, really loud pipes are not the kind of instrument I would like to play. If it comes to sound pressures like a soprano sax, for example, which "cuts through sessions and bands", then to my opinion this is not the pipes that I admire.
I prefer chanters which sound immersed in the drones, and not those beasts that you can hear seventy miles from here. They simply disrupt the balance between chanter and drones, and I guess this is why in some cases, drones sound like sick bumblebees.

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"Why buy one, if you can get two for just twice the price?"
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The Sporting Pitchfork · Mon Jul 21, 2003 6:55 am

Hmm...

This is kinda interesting because I once had a chat with Cillian O Briain (who made Gay McKeon's pipes) and he said his goal was NOT to make really loud, squeaky, session-dominating instruments.

Yes, the wood used certainly does have an effect. Granted, that subject matter seems to have been flogged to death on this forum, but hell, we can always seem to keep droning on about it (ugh...sorry). Also interesting that you say ebony is "warmer" in tone than blackwood as I've heard others that think the opposite (I personally can hardly notice any difference between the two at all myself).

Boxwood does seem to have a noticeably milder tone owing in part to the fact that it apparently can't be bored and polished to as fine a degree as blackwood or ebony, and also its lighter density. However, the biggest factor in my opinion is the way that you set up the reed. If you get a big flashy set of blackwood or ebony pipes and you set up the reeds to play relatively quiet, well then, there you go. Perhaps Gay McKeon sets his reeds to play very loud and at a rather high pressure.

I play a set of O Briain boxwood pipes and while I wouldn' t say they're earth-shatteringly loud by a longshot, they do sound louder than some blackwood sets I've encountered and I suspect that's probably owing to the way that I prefer to have my reeds set.

Brian Lee · Post by **Brian Lee** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 7:32 am

AWESOME!!!

OK, So I'm learning to make my own reeds now, and my question is this.

I own a very large bore chanter by all accounts.

I want it to play like a small bore chanter by all accounts.

How do I "adjust" my reeds so that the bleeding thing still plays very well in tune, but isn't blowing out eardrums half-way across the pub?

Can I engineer new reeds that will play much much quieter but still play in tune?

HELP ME OBI WAN!!!

Bri~

Kevin L. Rietmann · Post by **Kevin L. Rietmann** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:06 am

You can put some "rushes" in the bore, wires with junk (string, blobby shtuff, etc.) on them, and then use a reed which is both sharper in overall pitch, and flat in the 2nd octave, without the rush; with the rush it's in tune. This can also serve as a tuning device, if the blobs can slide up and down; you can then adjust the rushing on whichever note. Leo Rowsome used this in his own chanter, which was something like 13 15/16" long, very short; in his tutor he speaks of adjusting rushes to bring the top hand in, etc. It does mute some of the tone a bit, of course.

Tony · Post by **Tony** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 10:26 am

Are those soft blobs as in sticky tack or are they hard blobs as in epoxy?

I suppose if you got the tuning right with a soft blob and replaced it with a hard blob you would probably have a brighter/louder sound than keeping the soft blob. Comments anyone?

brianc · Post by **brianc** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:01 am

if you got the tuning right with a soft blob

- Tony

.............

I use Blue-Tack in a couple of the tone holes on my current chanter, and haven't (in the past 9 - 12 months) had to replace it with anything more durable (harder) than itself. And, upon any impending reed changes (knock on wood) it's easy to remove without damaging the shape/size of the tone hole.

Stay tuned,

Brian C

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:02 am

Tony...I use soft blobs on the wires in the regs, none on the full length wire in the chanter, but if it needed one I'd use soft (nail putty stick - black). I doubt if it matters whether it's hard or soft since air displacement is achieved either way. I prefer soft so I can easily change it.

BTW, Kevin R. is another one of those knowledgable pipers who knows way more than he should.

It's good to have him around.

djm · Post by **djm** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 11:53 am

Can I engineer new reeds that will play much much quieter but still play in tune?

Brian, you can also soften the tone and quieten the sound by closing the reed lips a bit with the bridle, and sanding your reed lips thinner. Sharp, bright sounding reeds that blare away are usually very open and very stiff/thick.

As to staying in tune, this is a very touchy business when thinning the reed lips. Its easy to trash a reed. Hopefully you are fully prepared to experiment, and have made many, not just one, reed in advance.

Make all changes in very small increments, e.g. when sanding, one to two scrapes on 600 grit wet/dry paper max on each side, then try it in your chanter. Same for moving the bridle. Never move it more than a hair's breadth at a time before trying it out in your chanter. Adjusting reeds can take hours and hours until you get used to your chanter's needs and to your own reeds.

djm

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:08 pm

I know the sandpaper/scraper thing on cane has been discussed before, but doesn't sandpaper leave a "woolly" sounding reed, whereas a scraping/shaving knife leaves the cane sounding more crisp...all due to the fact that sandpaper opens the pores and knives/scrapers seal the wood shut...open pores absorbing moisture, breathing more.

If so, sandpaper would certainly help "soften" the tone.

djm · Post by **djm** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:26 pm

Lorenzo, you would use both: the knife to scrape the scrape (what else?) and superfine grit paper for sanding the lips - just the lips.

A good source to view is Alan Moler's video on UP reed making, available from NPU in PAL and NTSC formats. Some of his methods don't work for me, but if you want to just watch someone do stuff (watch again and again) it is a helpful tool.

djm

Patrick D'Arcy · Post by **Patrick D'Arcy** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:33 pm

Yo Kevo....

Earschplittinloudenboomerpipes

err err, diddley um, err err!

Early every morning, while I'm fast asleep,
Comes a little birdie, going cheep cheep cheep ....

PD.

Lorenzo · Post by **Lorenzo** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 2:13 pm

djm wrote:..you would use both: the knife to scrape the scrape (what else?) and superfine grit paper for sanding the lips - just the lips.

Some of the best reed makers, for both uillieann pipes and oboe, use only a super thin shaving knife, curved out, hollow ground on the upper side. They never dig in because the leading edge of the knife naturally wants to come out. I have a couple of these and the shaving ribbons that peel off are not much bigger than fine, fine sawdust.

This one in the pic above is "double ground" or hollow on both sides. Imagine one that is only curved one way. It would never be used for splitting cane because it's not straight. These are thin and sharp enough to cut a single hair.

Also, some of the best reeds are never sanded on the inside either. Only a gouge is used. This keeps from "roughing up" the cells on the inner surface of the cane which give the reed a soft woolly sound.

I think AlanB says he does sand the inner surface a little but seals the wood afterwards. I'll have to dig up the old thread and reread it.

Greg Schnider · Post by **Greg Schnider** » Mon Jul 21, 2003 3:13 pm

Interesting bit about using a straight razor. I tried using one for a while, but found the metal too soft and I kept having to sharpen it too often for my taste. It did work well for taking very tiny bits of the cane off though.

Andreas Rogge used to use sanding sealer on the inside of his slips. I don't know if he still is though.