wide vs. narrow bore

Mal · Post by **Mal** » Thu Jun 28, 2001 11:22 am

What is the difference from the musicians standpoint between a wide bore and a narrow bore whistle?

Thomas-Hastay · Post by **Thomas-Hastay** » Thu Jun 28, 2001 12:09 pm

The greatest difference,acousticly,is that a wide bore imparts more harmonic overtones for a "flutey" sound at the expence of a reduced range and loudness,while a narrow bore increases range and loudness at the expence of reduced harmonics.

A narrow bore has more acoustic capacitance for increased volume and has a faster response to octave changes, while a wide bore reduces shrillness(mellow) but has more tone color.Variations are almost infinite and are a matter of personal preference.

There are other differences,but these are the most significant. Debate is welcome

Thomas Hastay.

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Thu Jun 28, 2001 5:38 pm

I have a wide and a narrow bore brass Burke high D. The wide bore is louder, has more chiff (more breathy). The narrow bore has less chiff, a cleaner, purer tone. The mouthpiece is smaller and it clogs with condensation a lot. They are both nice sounds, but different. The narrow bore has a "smaller" sound to it.

Steampacket · Post by **Steampacket** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 6:25 am

I play a wide bore D whistle in aluminium made by Jean-Paul Le Mer of Paris, France. It has a nice mellow sound through both octaves. The only drawback is watching that the mouthpiece doesn't get clogged with condensation.

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 7:09 am

Wide bores are more prone to odd effects of fingering, like becoming unstable when you leave the sixth finger down on high g, a, or b. I also think that a narrower bore will favor the higher octave, a wider bore the lower octave. Take a look at the thread called "VSB D vs. SB D" (or something), it discusses the wider and narrowerer Susato D bores.

Byll · Post by **Byll** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 7:15 am

I do not mean to confuse the issue, and in no way am I attempting to promote debate in this thread, but my experience differs from that of Thomas.

I own but one narrow bore instrument, an aluminum non-tunable D built by Mack Hoover. I play sets of Hoovers and Burkes.

My Hoover narrow bore creates significantly less volume than any of my standard bore instruments. It has an amazingly sweet tone - very mellow - not at all shrill... I have found no difference in usable range attributable to the bore diamater of my instruments.

Possibly the operative terms here are 'narrow', 'standard', and 'wide'. I own no wide bore, high whistles. Perhaps if I did, I would hear the characteristics described by Thomas...My instuments with wide bore are low whistles. I don't think that this is what Mal's original question was all about...

I concur that the standard bore instruments have more harmonic overtones - more color...This is undoubtedly also true of wide-bore instruments.

Again, I play only one narrow-bore instrument...As Thomas says, the variables in reality are probably almost infinite.

Cheers to all.
Byll

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 1:35 pm

So for those of you who own both in same key: do you find that you can articulate easier, especially on rolls?

Im asking because my Burke E, which is just a smaller instrument overall, is very fast on rolls, while the Pro Session D seems a little more sluggish than a Feadog or Gen D.
I was wondering if I got a narrow bore Burke whether it would be more similar to the little e...... Just have to spend that last nickel.

chas · Post by **chas** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 3:32 pm

The wide-bore Burke D whistle is just a hair wider than Gen-Feadog types and Sindts. It's about the same as Water/Thin Weasel, Silkstone, etc. The Burke is much mellower than most, but I think it's due to other aspects than the bore diameter.

One very interesting thing is that the Water Weasel and Thin Weasel are the same diameter in D, but the C is MUCH bigger in TW than WW. The wide bore of the C TW makes it an entirely different instrument. The sound is bigger, less shrill, it growls a bit, and has this other characteristic that I can just describe as openness. I've played two, and the first was very mellow, but the second, which I kept, is pretty much the in-your-face whistle that I was looking for.

There's also a pretty big difference is in the playing. It's really like a cross between playing a low whistle and a pennywhistle, the diameter is so big. I find myself using piper's grip unconsciously sometimes. I find it's just as responsive as most D whistles, but I'm not really an advanced player, so YMMV.

Charlie

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:35 pm

Lance,
Show up at McGrath's this Sunday and you can try both wide and narrow bore Burkes in brass.
Tony

The Weekenders · Post by **The Weekenders** » Thu Aug 22, 2002 5:37 pm

Thanks Tony but I will be at Cape Cod, hopefully crackin lobster arms with Tygrhess and Bloomfield......like I said, Sundays suck for gettin to McGraths.

Walden · Post by **Walden** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 3:14 am

On 2002-08-22 08:25, Steampacket wrote:
I play a wide bore D whistle in aluminium made by Jean-Paul Le Mer of Paris, France. It has a nice mellow sound through both octaves. The only drawback is watching that the mouthpiece doesn't get clogged with condensation.

Where might one acquire one of these Le Mer whistles? Or would I have to go to France?

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 5:33 am

On 2002-08-22 19:37, The Weekenders wrote:
Thanks Tony but I will be at Cape Cod, hopefully crackin lobster arms with Tygrhess and Bloomfield......like I said, Sundays suck for gettin to McGraths.

Where is McGraths?

TonyHiggins · Post by **TonyHiggins** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:09 pm

McGrath's Pub is at 1539 Lincoln Ave (St?) in Alameda. From San Jose, you would come in at Park St (I don't know if that's the name of the exit on 880N), go over the brige up Park, and turn rt on Lincoln (about a mile or so up Park). The pub is almost half way to Webster. The session happen every 2nd and 4th Sundays, starting at 7pm. It's very friendly, everyone generally introduces themselves. The playing is not rip-roaring fast, but not slow, either. If you want a play list, I can email you one. A number of the people who attend, also attend a house session the same day in the Berkeley area. That tends to be a somewhat slower playing.
Tony

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:38 pm

I'd love to see the playlist, Tony, thanks. My email address is below. I presently work Sundays but when my shift rotates, I'd enjoy attending the session.

goatpiper · Post by **goatpiper** » Sat Aug 24, 2002 12:53 pm

I have a Burke narrow bore D, and it is the bomb...it pops the second octave F and G very readily coming off the lower a. Pressure between both octaves is very consistent, allowing for ease of fast octave changes...I love it...it plays like a dream and has the perfect volume level for my taste. On a slightly different topic, I also have a Burke Bnat wide...if you want a sweet sounding mellow whistle, this one is amazing...smooth doesn't even begin to describe it.

My two cents,
aaron welsh