OT: A POLL How many pagans do we have on this Board?

[Lorenzo]

You forgot "And the Irish Goodess Brid (pron: vree) was never cannonized into the Saint Bridgit that is recognized today. (because Brid was so popular that even the threat of being cast out of the church (oo stop scaring me) wouldn't make the pagans stop believing her. SO the christians gave in and decided to make her a saint instead... or did they...???
WSSL
Cyfiawnder

hmmmm, I looked under Pagan Influence on the Catholic Church and found a wee bit on our fine Saint, Brid:

The goddess of the flame to the ancient Celts, she has survived into our time as "St. Bridget" in the Irish catholic church. To this day her 'eternal flame' burns in Kildare, Ireland and her ancient sacred wells are still revered and visited. It is believed by pagan catholics that Brigit, Lady of the Fairies - watches over their sacred green places and, if you look into her Magickal Mirror, you can see the Faerie Realm. Here she is presented as a cloverleaf Trinity.

Brigit is a goddess who survived the onslaught of catholic Christopaganism. She wasn't turned into a devil like so many other goddesses. So great was the love of the Irish Celtic people for this deity, that they retained all her characteristics as a pagan-catholic saint! They would not have had anything to do with catholicism (pagan christianity) if they couldn't keep Brigit. So the catholic church had no choice but to make her a nun and a saint. She is a triple goddess. This triple aspect of the goddess is where catholics got the idea of exploiting the Trinity concept. The three-leaf shamrock was originally of "The Three Mothers", as well as the three phases of the moon being her symbols. She shares some attributes with the ancient Greek triple goddess Hecate.

[talasiga]

.....
ER...FWIW, not only do we have written descriptions of the events surrounding Christ's last supper with his disciples, we have significant knowledge of how Passover seders are and were celebrated, so that's really not an issue. Unlike the Jews and early Christians, however, most of the pagan sects didn't keep records of how they observed their rites.

Redwolf

Once again the Redwolf barks
but misses my point.

My comment turns on this question:
Is palpable, material evidence the final arbiter that justifies faith?
Or is faith causeless and her grace proven by her spiritual fruits?

What did Jesus of the Countryside have to say on this?
Remind me ........

[Berti66]

It's never been controversial! Melanchthon never wrote a book called Aplologia Confessionis Augustanae in 1530 AD, detailing Catholic rituals copied from Paganism.

H. Bullinger never wrote De Originie Erroris Libris Duo in 1539, detailing Catholic "cultic errors" copied from the Heathens.

Isaac Casaubon never wrote De rebus Sacris et Ecclesiasticus Exercitationes in 1614, about how the apostle Paul's use of terminology and ideas came from the pagan mystery religions.

...and thousands of modern scholarly works, such as Drudgery Divine, or The Survival of the Pagan Gods, have never linked the two![/quote]


gosh I am so impressed, where did you get that information lorenzo???
but indeed it is true: the church copied a lot of the dates and rituals from the heathens, in order to win as much souls as possible, aka make them think it is something they might like.
also scare the hell *PUN* out of them so they will come to church or be damned *literally*

berti

[talasiga]

...............
heathen............
..............................

Someone who pecks at your beliefs when horny.

[Lorenzo]

where did you get that information lorenzo???

Every book store has tons of info on this and the web has thousands of sites (some better than others). Here's one called Getting Started that's kind lightweight, but also kind of funny and honest.

[Walden]

where did you get that information lorenzo???

Every book store has tons of info on this and the web has thousands of sites (some better than others). Here's one called Getting Started that's kind lightweight, but also kind of funny and honest.

"Just facts, no opinion. Look, I know the stuff you're reading here is hard to swallow. This is the wacky web -- I don't expect you to believe me. So here's the POCM web site's prime directive: Just facts, no opinion." sounds a bit like the sort of thing you might read on a site run by **insert name of Christian splinter group here**.

[CHIFF FIPPLE]

...............
heathen............
..............................

Someone who pecks at your beliefs when horny.

Or your breefs :roll:
Me I'm a Pict, Is that Pagan?

[talasiga]

...............
heathen............
..............................

Someone who pecks at your beliefs when horny.

Or your breefs :roll:
Me I'm a Pict, Is that Pagan?

well, you sure have got
a lot of pikkies in your post
you hot scotty

[Berti66]

[quote="Lorenzo" Here's one called [url=http://www.medmalexperts.com/POCM/getti ... _pocm.html][u][i]Getting Started[/i][/u][/url] that's kind lightweight, but also kind of funny and honest.[/quote]

looks great......thanks!!!!!
berti

[Lorenzo]

sounds a bit like the sort of thing you might read on a site run by **insert name of Christian splinter group here**.

Oh Walden, you were forgiven in advance, because you're such a nice guy. Your regular silly attempts to "reduce in worth by association" have come to be expected.

Remember that principle...the one that is a bar against all information, proof against every argument, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance? "Condemnation without sincere investigation"

Anyone sincerely searching for historical facts re Religion cannot ignore evidence to the contrary, nor simply shrug it off.

[Varghjärta]

Having a wee trouble following this discussion.

Are we arguing over _IF_ Christianity in fact did adopt or modify _some_ aspects from Paganism in it's early days or not?

[Walden]

Oh Walden, you were forgiven in advance, because you're such a nice guy. Your regular silly attempts to "reduce in worth by association" have come to be expected.

As are your responses, re my character.

Christianity holds that it is indeed the religion of Nature's God, and Nature bearing witness to Him, it is entirely consistent that elements of pagan mythology will bear witness to Christianity. Particularly, we hold that He gave signs and seasons, and throughout the Old Testament we have observations of new moons and so forth, and all these are, shadows of the Covenant.

Any religion which observes times and seasons will have parallels with Christianity, because we live in the same universe and Nature is the same. There are also striking parallels between Christian symbolism and the symbolism of Eastern religions. There are also parallels between Christianity and the tribal beliefs of the Americas.

On the subject of St. Brigid, it is held that some of the mythos of the goddess have been folklorically reapplied to the saint, but that Saint Brigid was an actual human person.

[talasiga]

Having a wee trouble following this discussion.

There is no real discussion here.
However we may be amazed by the vast knowledge
of certain posters
and perturbed by the impertinence of others.

To say that an oral tradition cannot be proven because its not written
is inane. Like, its an oral tradition. Get it?
:roll:

You see, although people lived in Australia before the arrival of the European colonisers, the colonisers considered the land terra nullius which is legal latinism meaning "unowned land".

It has taken over 200 years for the British derived law in Australia to recognise
that just because the evidence of ownership by the indigenous Australians did not accord with the practices (boundary fences etc) and written records according to the British standard, that does not mean that the Australian Aborigines did not have a system of title to land: that Australia wasn't terra nullius at all (see Mabo case).

Sometimes we need to review our measure for proof.

[peeplj]

There is no question that Christianity has borrowed heavily from early pagan religions.

Ever heard of Christmas?

If shepherds were watching their flocks by night when Jesus was born, it would not have been in December.

And the custom of Christmas trees?

The concept of the god-made-man who dies and is resurrected three days later?

The golden rule?

The Trinity?

All of these things have clear preChristian origins.

Don't believe me: look 'em up.

--James

[Lorenzo]

EXPLAIN WHY CHRISTIANITY HAD TO CRUSH PAGANISM

October 9, 28 BCE, the Temple of Apollo was dedicated on the Palatine Hill in Rome. The "Apollo Palatínus" was built by Emperor Augustus.

This temple was the most magnificent of Augustus' buildings, constructed of solid blocks of white Luna marble, and the doors were decorated with reliefs in ivory, one representing the rescue of Delphi from the Celts, and the other the fate of the Niobids. Before the entrance to the temple stood a marble statue of the god, and an altar surrounded by four oxen by [5th cent. BCE sculptor] Myron. In the cella was a statue of Apollo by Scopas [also 5th cent. BCE], one of Diana by Timotheus [5th cent. BCE], and of Latona by Cephisodotus [mid-4th century BCE]. -from Aedes Apollinis Palatini by Samuel Ball Platner (as completed and revised by Thomas Ashby), "A Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome." London: Oxford University Press, 1929.

The fact that this magnificent temple no longer exists--it was burned down on 18 March 363--is a tragedy to art and to scholarship, but also characteristic of the Christian attitude toward pagan culture. Suffice it to say that the Muslim attitude toward non-Muslim culture, as evidenced by the Taliban's destruction of Buddhist statuary in Afghanistan (February 2001), is far from an aberration and shows a similar attitude.

The pagans were subjected to many decades of violence and persecution before the "triumph" of the Church. It was neither the high character of the Christians nor their doctrines that won pagans over to Christianity. They were converted by force. The Theodosian Code initiated the persecutions.