Off Topic: Musings on Veterans' Day

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 11:49 am

I wore my Buddy Poppy yesterday, not out of patriotic fervor, but with a mixture of respect and contrariness because we didn't get a holiday from work.

So I spent the evening at my neighbor Fran's, and we ended up watching "Midway," 1976, with every male star in Hollywood (starting with Henry Fonda as Nimitz) plus Japan's astonishing Toshiro Mifune as Yamamoto. There was one lonely woman on camera and she was primarily a plot device.

No whistles anywhere, not even a bosun's pipe.

It wasn't a great film, but what made it striking was the extensive use of gun camera footage--my God, it just looks like a plane hitting the water but men were dying.

And like many things Hollywood can't get right, all the pilot-flying-plane close-ups had the cowling open (never happened) and cigarettes (with bottled oxygen on hand? not advisable).

Anyway, that's what Fran said. Her late husband flew P51 Mustangs in Europe. Her sister Pat's husband flew off the Lexington during Midway and came back to find it gone.

I had no patience to just sit and listen when I was younger. But maybe I can better appreciate what I'm hearing now.

Try it yourself, before these storytellers are all gone. And you might pray, while you're listening, that we don't create any more war veterans--or victims.

Marguerite

vaporlock · Post by **vaporlock** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:10 pm

It is sad, that as time goes by, the links to the terrible wars of the past gradually fade. It becomes a textbook and Hollywood experience instead of a personal story of suffering, strength and endurance. Too soon, the only records of these things will be stored solely on paper and celluloid instead of in the memories of the people who were there.

Remebering the horrors of the past is perhaps one of the best ways to avoid traveling the same path in the future. Remembering the triumphs of the past gives us the strength to face the unknown future with determination and spirit.

Well put, Marguerite:

I had no patience to just sit and listen when I was younger. But maybe I can better appreciate what I'm hearing now.

Try it yourself, before these storytellers are all gone. And you might pray, while you're listening, that we don't create any more war veterans--or victims.

God bless us all and keep us safe,
Eric

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 12:23 pm

On 2002-11-12 13:10, vaporlock wrote:

Remebering the horrors of the past is perhaps one of the best ways to avoid traveling the same path in the future. Remembering the triumphs of the past gives us the strength to face the unknown future with determination and spirit.

Too true. As a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer that served 20 years, I worry that there are fewer and fewer veterans serving in elected offices, particularly at the national level. True, war has always been waged by the "elders" and fought by the younger generation, but in the past, the vast majority of those "elders" had previously served in the military.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that you have to have served in the military in order to have a good perspective or to make the correct decisions when the time comes, but I do think that some different perspective does come from those who have been in the military, and I fear that we are losing that balance.

All the Best,

Tom

Wizzer · Post by **Wizzer** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:23 pm

On 2002-11-12 13:23, TomB wrote:
On 2002-11-12 13:10, vaporlock wrote:

Remebering the horrors of the past is perhaps one of the best ways to avoid traveling the same path in the future. Remembering the triumphs of the past gives us the strength to face the unknown future with determination and spirit.

Too true. As a retired Navy Chief Petty Officer that served 20 years, I worry that there are fewer and fewer veterans serving in elected offices, particularly at the national level. True, war has always been waged by the "elders" and fought by the younger generation, but in the past, the vast majority of those "elders" had previously served in the military.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that you have to have served in the military in order to have a good perspective or to make the correct decisions when the time comes, but I do think that some different perspective does come from those who have been in the military, and I fear that we are losing that balance.

All the Best,

Tom

It is usually those that have experience the reality of war who understand the seriousness and permanence of making those missteps in diplomacy that make the gun the last resort.
I am a Vietnam vet and a firm believer that national service of some sort should be mandatory. It is my belief that it is necessary for John Q Public to understand that we must all do our part in order for this country to remain as a democracy.
We have to many people in government today who have lined their pockets with Patriotic fervor rather than patriotic service.

Aodhan · Post by **Aodhan** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:29 pm

I had no patience to just sit and listen when I was younger. But maybe I can better appreciate what I'm hearing now.

Try it yourself, before these storytellers are all gone. And you might pray, while you're listening, that we don't create any more war veterans--or victims.
Marguerite

Amen Marguerite. I spent 6 years working ER duty and ATH (Air Transportable Hospital, the modern version of MASH units) for the Air Force, and my father was a Vietnam Air Evac chopper pilot.

As far as seeing and learning things before the story tellers are gone, one of the best passages I know is from a local Irish band, "The Clare Voyants"

"Teach them to ride our winged horses,
hand them down the silver reins.
Hope for tomorrow finds a refuge,
In the songs of yesterday....we must Pass It On"

from the Song "Pass It On", album of the same name, copyright The Clare Voyants, written by Shay Veno. (

Hope that covers the copyright stuff)

Aodhan

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:39 pm

On 2002-11-12 12:49, mvhplank wrote:
Try it yourself, before these storytellers are all gone. And you might pray, while you're listening, that we don't create any more war veterans--or victims.

You're right that the WW2 vets will soon be gone, but war veterans will always be with us because no generation dies out without having gone to one war or another, and veterans of all the wars are worthy of our gratitude.

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 3:52 pm

On 2002-11-12 16:23, Wizzer wrote:
[We have to many people in government today who have lined their pockets with Patriotic fervor rather than patriotic service.

Fabulous line! I can't think of a better way to express it.

mvhplank · Post by **mvhplank** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:05 pm

On 2002-11-12 16:39, blackhawk wrote:

You're right that the WW2 vets will soon be gone, but war veterans will always be with us because no generation dies out without having gone to one war or another, and veterans of all the wars are worthy of our gratitude.

Alas, too true. And no one comes home the same as when they left. My dad didn't see action and couldn't shut up about the war. But my uncle, a prince of a man, was a POW in Germany and never talked about it at all. After he retired he joined a POW group and traveled all over the place with his wife. I like to think that somehow the trauma lost its sharp edges for him.

Marguerite

blackhawk · Post by **blackhawk** » Tue Nov 12, 2002 4:13 pm

On 2002-11-12 17:05, mvhplank wrote:
But my uncle, a prince of a man, was a POW in Germany and never talked about it at all. After he retired he joined a POW group and traveled all over the place with his wife. I like to think that somehow the trauma lost its sharp edges for him.

I hope so, too.

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:46 am

What gets me about Veterans' Day is all the banks and schools (around here) that close. To me, the only people who should be off on the day are those who served their country.... with a full days' pay!!!!

And as far as those who saw actual action talking about their experiences goes, most Viet Nam Vets I know clam up when asked about what it was like....

~Larry

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:10 am

On 2002-11-14 09:46, madguy wrote:

And as far as those who saw actual action talking about their experiences goes, most Viet Nam Vets I know clam up when asked about what it was like....

~Larry

Can't blame them.

All the Best, Tom

madguy · Post by **madguy** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:37 am

Nor can I.
When I was a freshman in college there was a poster in the "head" shops that I bought and hung on my wall. It was a picture of Arlington National Cemetary with the words below it that were close to this...
"We are the unwilling, led by the unqualified, to do the unthinkable for the ungrateful."

~Larry

Bloomfield · Post by **Bloomfield** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:37 am

I grew up among WWII stories, and it was often unpleasant. Those I wanted to ask wouldn't answer, and those I could not bear to hear would not stop talking.

susnfx · Post by **susnfx** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 11:52 am

My dad was in WWII in the Pacific but because I hated him I never asked about it and he didn't talk about it. However, a few years ago when he was staying with us, my teenage daughter asked him something about the war and he started telling us some experiences he had. He hadn't seen a lot of fighting, but he spent quite some time telling us stories about their boat being surrounded by a shark feeding frenzy for three days, things he saw on Bataan, even about a monkey some Australians had, etc. These were stories I had never heard before and I immediately went to my computer and typed them out as he had told them and then gave copies to my brothers and sister. I saw an entirely different side of my dad, and he seemed pleased to have been asked about it and to talk about it all those years later.
Reading D-Day, Band of Brothers, and other WWII books by Stephen Ambrose, and The Greatest Generation by Tom Brokaw, has helped me (and my daughter) have even greater respect for men and women who go through these horrific experiences.
Susan

TomB · Post by **TomB** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:02 pm

All true; and, in the case of Vietnam, because it carried such stigma, I believe it made much more difficult for those folks that were there to talk about it.

There are about 58,000 names on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Wall, but I would bet that there were at least that number that came back with horrible suffering and with little help in dealing with it.

All the Best, Tom