Posting clips

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:32 am

nice one arbo. about the phrasing/breathe: sounds like a punchy style, strong bursts of sound, creating a dynamic rhythm, and so that might lend itself to shorter crisper phrases (ending with some short rolls), revealing an energetic/snappy sound, letting it accentuate.
jem's comments may seem, at least to me, biased towards a less athletic 'gusto' style of play, less umph in the low end notes; yet more flowing, smooth and seamless. it's easier to keep long phrases in that style and one should because that energetic punch can be sacrificed by doing so. either way is fine but i think we need to be cognizant of different styles, and let them flourish. it's not about playing perfectly, or one way. do whatever floats your boat and have fun doing it.
arbo, you got some style that is sort of unique to you, your own sound. that's what the greats like matt molloy encourage. i recall at one point he said he wouldn't want people trying to sound just like him, but supports us in finding our own individual style (paraphrase).

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:47 am

Thanks Rama. I hear that a lot about 'having my own sound.' I always felt a little weird about that...ya know, sounds great, but I wouldn't call it 'Irish.' I guess in the end, you play what you feel and hopefully someone else connects with it along they way. I know I fall into that swing feel, especially if I start a tune. I can follow along easily enough, but when left to my own devices.... I suppose it is quite like anything else one chooses to persue...
eventually you find your own voice, and at that point in time growth becomes very evident.

Arbo

http://public.box.net/imnotirish73470

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:57 am

ImNotIrish wrote:I saw a recent thread on the session.org discussing having multiple flutes in a session. Then I remembered that I had recorded myself playing along with with myself as a duet on a set of reels. ...
Arbo

http://public.box.net/imnotirish73470

It doesn't sound like two flute to me because you're perfectly in tune (and perfectly in tone) with yourself and both of yous are breathing and playing the tune exactly the same.

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 9:59 am

arbo, i dunno, sounds very trad. to me. moreso than some professional playing. i'm listening to your clip right now. hey i think i can hear the brooklyn accent coming thru.
like diane said, the both of yous sound great together.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:05 am

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:41 am

arbo, i larbored with that tune (trip to nenagh) to no end. and i am still unsatisified, i feel like i am plodding along too mechanically. but i am pleased to get thru it without losing tone etc. so i'll take it for now. but i have a fiddler in my head playing that tune, and i'm trying to match it on the flute.
beara isle came out afterwards, something i hadn't played in awhile so i felt like i was guessing alot on that one. i am not sure i go it right. there was a d# in the second part that i wanted to play but was getting nervous as to where to put it! you can hear where i lose tone and flub up.
listening to your playing reminds me to focus more on putting umph into it like (i used to do). i have been feeling abit lackluster in that dept., while trying to focus on other aspects of playing. i think that's one of benefit of this thread.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:56 am

Diane,

Thanks for the comment. I actually spent a while recording my self playing along to sets I put down to try and match the tuning and the phrasing, and to listen and try to anticipate what's coming next. Of course, since I am playing along with myself I know the little nuances and phrasing that I do, but if you listen carefully to that clip you will hear where I deviated some from the original phrasing, and played the octave, or didn't put in the ornament, or did put in an ornament, etc. You can also hear when the tuning is 'dead on,' and when it isn't (when it's not it really does sound like two flutes, or for example, when the ornamentation is slightly different, or off timing). Anyway, all in all it's a fun exercise. And it is sooo cool to get it to sound like one flute!
Arbo

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Mon Nov 12, 2007 11:18 am

ImNotIrish wrote:Jem,
I went back and listened again to Mofa'r and Welsh Tune. I liked them both a lot. The first one I preferred more, as I thought the pace, and the counterpoint worked better together. Sometimes the Welsh tune got lost, or I got lost inside of it. The sound on the flute(s) is great (given the setting). I'm not sure about the timing of the glass clinking...

All in all, great! What flute are you playing?
Arbo

Thanks for doing that, Arbo. I wrote what flutes I played on the posting info for each clip. One's on a Rampone 12-key with b foot and t'other's on my R&R. Ceri's flute is a 4-key Dave Williams.
I know what you mean about the getting lost thing - that's the result of playing along/improvising to a tune you only 3/4 know and haven't rehearsed. Bits work beautifully, others go awry! The glass, expresso machine and other noises off were not in our control!!!!!

I'll be off to that session again tomorrow night, but as my MD is currently refusing to record, there won't be any more clips this time!

Incidentally, I do see Rama's points about different styles and personal voices, and having fun - and pretty much agree. Wouldn't do at all for everyone to play alike!

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:52 pm

I think Trip... is tricky tune. The C pedal points and the low notes make the tune challenging. I don't play it quite the way Sean Ryan wrote it but he's a fiddler anyways.
At any rate, here's the way I hear it:

Trip to Neenagh

Played on a 6-key Olwell cocus Nicholson model with medium holes.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:42 am

Enjoyed that, Cocus, thanks - and Arbo for the ABC - I'm going to have a look at that one.

What flute, Cocusflute?

Here are some new jig clips that I've just done a propos of another thread, but on which I'd appreciate any feedback they may get here from those of you not following that particular discussion.

Humours of Ballyloughlin on my original R&R Flute.

Humours of Ballyloughlin on Low Whistle (Dave Lymm PVC).

Kiss Me Darling & Knocknagow on my original R&R Flute.
(Kiss Me Darling is a.k.a The Maid At The Spinning Wheel)
"My" version of Knocknagow is based on the 4 part setting in the Miles Krassen edition of O'Neills. I'm aware some sources give the 1st two parts as No. 1 and the 3rd + 4th as a separate tune No. 2, and also that some settings keep a C# all the way through - which I think make it a far less attractive tune.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 3:29 pm

Hey Jem,

just had another listen to the Maid set... Love the sound of that R&R. I'm not sure I'm hearing that wonderful low end, especially the hard 'D.' The recording doesn't sound as even and relaxed as some of your other tunes. I am going to put down my three part version of the Maid this weekend. I have a slightly different take on it. I will use my R&R as well. Might do the Bally as well, though I really do have to run through that one a few times before recording.
Cheers, Arbo.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Fri Nov 16, 2007 5:44 pm

Hey Cocusflute,
just listened to your clip of Neenagh. Very nice. Really like the phrasing and the pulse. Look forward to hearing more.
Arbo

Whistlin'Dixie · Post by **Whistlin'Dixie** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 7:58 am

cocusflute wrote:I think Trip... is tricky tune. The C pedal points and the low notes make the tune challenging. I don't play it quite the way Sean Ryan wrote it but he's a fiddler anyways.
At any rate, here's the way I hear it:

Trip to Neenagh

Played on a 6-key Olwell cocus Nicholson model with medium holes.

Oh, how NICE!
I do like your version.
I have it on a fiddle CD, and have just sort of held the low notes, but I like how you work that out in yours.

M

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:57 am

ImNotIrish wrote:Hey Jem,

just had another listen to the Maid set... Love the sound of that R&R. I'm not sure I'm hearing that wonderful low end, especially the hard 'D.' The recording doesn't sound as even and relaxed as some of your other tunes. I am going to put down my three part version of the Maid this weekend. I have a slightly different take on it. I will use my R&R as well. Might do the Bally as well, though I really do have to run through that one a few times before recording.
Cheers, Arbo.

Thanks, Arbo. I was (again) starting to wonder why no-one seems willing to give me any feedback!

Perceptions are a funny thing, aren't they? Of course, getting the benefit of the perceptions of others is precisely the reason for posting here, whatever one's level of attainment. No feedback, no point in posting!

Come on folks! Seriously. I don't subscribe to the school of thought that says one can't/shouldn't analyse and comment unless one considers oneself to be at the same level or more advanced than the subject of criticism. Nor am I seeking praise - nice (appreciated and welcome) if it comes, but not the point. Arbo's comments have caused me to re-evaluate my own perceptions. That is the point. Anyone can listen carefully and say what they like or dislike about a performance and, preferably, support that opinion with analysis. If they can offer advice and encouragement, so much the better. Strong, well argued criticism pointing out weaknesses and towards potential improvement is just as welcome as praise, if sometimes harder to swallow!

Why do I say "funny"? Well, when I did those clips I was feeling pretty relaxed - to the extent that I pretty much rattled them off without a lot of angst, multi-takes, etc. etc. And even listening back to them, they seem fairly relaxed to me, apart from a few short bits where I wander from what I'm trying to do, know it and have to work myself back on course - but none of those were bad enough for me to reject these clips (would have in a studio type situation, of course). So if someone else hears them as not relaxed, I need to re-evaluate - maybe ultimately agreeing with the comment, or not, but I will have learned from the process and listened to myself in a different way. Any musician, indeed, any performer, should constantly be trying to consider how their audience is perceiving them. This kind of feedback helps to do that in a way that merely trying to extrapolate ones own imagination into the ears and eyes of an audience cannot.

As for "hard D" - well, certainly fair comment, though again, I was having a pretty good embouchure/solid bottom end day by my standards when I did those. I was quite pleased with getting them out that consistently that firmly! Although my low range tone has definitely improved in recent times and is more reliably firm, I haven't got a mega-blast low D - never has come well for me, even when I spend time working on it, and I've done quite a bit of that over the years, though obviously never enough to really crack it. That said, I know (perceptions!) Arbo, that you personally set great store by yours - and do it very well, though I feel you quite often put your all into that and miss out on other aspects. I'm not "having a go" here, but making a serious point and comparison. I wish I could reliably hit strong low notes as you do. If one could blend the two of us together one might create a half-decent flute player!

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Sat Nov 17, 2007 10:24 am

Jem,

I suppose my comment about being relaxed stems from the fact that I had previously listen to your two tunes from the pub. Those I felt were very relaxed, in the sense of flow, phrasing, and timing. Keep in mind, I have only listen a couple of times, and casually at that. I don't feel I have to take apart someone's playing, nor do I feel the need to comment on every aspect of one's playing. I am not in a position to do so- do not have the qualifications. It's also difficult to listen to every single post and give feedback to all (and there have been some very worthy contributions). Like you (and everyone else), I love to hear a positive comment about my playing. Of course we all probably feel that what we have posted is not our best. It's usually an audio picture of where one is at a particular moment in their playing. You know how it goes-some days/ moments are better than others. I also believe it is not an easy thing providing 'feedback' to others. Takes practice, and lots and lots of listening. I try not to feel defensive about the feedback I receive, but honestly, that's a struggle. So, I take a deep breath and reach for the flute....
Arbo

Chiff and Fipple Forums

Posting clips

Trip to Neenagh

Re: Trip to Neenagh