A true story

[I.D.10-t]

Convicted murderers have a very low recidivism
rate--they are less likely than other offenders to commit another
crime if released from prison. But 'murderers' are often thought of
as kill-crazed monsters who want to kill again and again....

I agree, but is this true for mental illness? Is he even a convicted murderer? He has a history of assault, the man seems to need protection from himself as much as others need protection from him. The care givers seemed to have failed to protect both.

[Redwolf]

According to the 10 pm news, authorities think Mr. Paul is headed for his family in Sunnyside, Washington.

His former attorney who is also a friend says he's fine if he's on his medication, but Mr. Paul feels his medication makes him weak. The attorney is reported as stating that Mr. Paul enjoys wood carving. (Does this scare anyone else?)

The news reported that there were 31 patients in the group, and 11 caregivers. I don't know if that's considered a safe ratio of attendants to patients or not. I haven't heard what kind of mental problems the rest of the group has. DSHS is looking into the matter.

Authorities believe he was missing for about 2 hours before the police were called.

That's a big problem, really, and a reason why schizophrenics so often go off their meds. They DO, often, make them feel "altered" and "slowed down." Sometimes, if they're lucky enough to have good insurance and a good doctor and a supportive family, a balance of medication can be found that allows them to feel good while remaining in touch with reality...but if this guy is at Eastern, under a charge of murder, I'm guessing he's had none of the above in his life.

There's no getting around the fact that schizophrenia isn't curable. It is treatable, and often maintainable. It's a cruel, cruel, bitch of an illness. If a person can manage to stay well-regulated on meds, he or she can sometimes live something close to a normal life. But when a person has a history, not only of going off his meds, but of committing violent acts while unmedicated, the only real choice is to keep him confined in a situation where he HAS to take his meds.

This man is ill. He is ill, and doesn't have the medications that keep him, for want of a better word, in remission. The longer he is gone, the sicker he will become, and the less likely he will be to be able to regulate himself. By letting this happen, the attendents were not only woefully inconsiderate of the safety of the community, they were criminally neglectful in their care of this very sick human being.

Redwolf

[mutepointe]

Is there anything new with this story?

[Doug_Tipple]

After reviewing his files a judge felt that Paul was healthy enough to attend a community college without supervision, so I doubt that he is a serious threat to society, at least no more so than those who drive while distracted, drunk, texting, or engaged in a serious conversation on their cell phones. Those are the people that I worry about as I cruise about town on the 2-way streets.

[Charlene]

Is there anything new with this story?

This is from KXLY.com, which is the TV station that first broke the story yesterday:

Friends say Phillip Paul allowed to live at Carlyle
Posted: Sep 18, 2009 2:41 PM PDT
Updated: Sep 18, 2009 6:00 PM PDT

Also See:
Hospital believes they did the right thing
Friends say Phillip Paul allowed to live at Carlyle
Search continues for escaped killer
Criminally insane killer disappears from fair
Story by:
Erik Loney / KXLY4 ReporterSPOKANE - While the community is up in arms over a criminally insane killer being allowed to visit the fair Thursday, apparently Eastern State Hospital allowed Phillip Paul to live on his own in downtown Spokane up until several months ago.

Friends of Phillip Paul say that he has been living at the Carlyle located at Post and 2nd for several years and it was only recently that he returned to live full time at Eastern State Hospital. While living at the Carlyle Paul had the freedom to walk around downtown Spokane within a six block radius of the hotel without supervision.

"I met Paul at Riverfront Park a few months ago and he gave me one of his CDs," Rick Harpman said.

The CD Rick is referring to is a collection of songs sung by Paul including such tracks as "Nut Hut" and "Rockin' and Rollin' in a mental institution," where Paul sings about living at Eastern State Hospital.

And his freedom to roam extended from beyond the Carlyle and out into cyberspace where Paul kept a collection of his greatest hits on his personal MySpace page.

Rick Harpman is a friend of Paul's and feels like he's not a dangerous person, though he readily admits he's never seen Paul off his medications so he couldn't say what he's like when he's unmedicated.

"If I felt somebody was a danger I wouldn't be around him," Harpman said.

Harpman says he wasn't surprised to hear Paul was the the Spokane County Fair Thursday. Harpman says that Paul had been living downtown for a while.

"He's been out among people downtown area. He used to have a two-block radios, then it went up to a six-block radius," Harpman said.

Harpman didn't know and no one has been able to confirm why Paul's living arrangements were modified and he went back to living at Eastern State Hospital full-time several months ago. He did say she wasn't surprised Phillip Paul escaped because he wants his freedom back.

"He's going to go where he knows somebody, you're out here and if you're a fugitive who's going to help him? Does he have friends? I don't think there are too many friends that will help him, there is a scare right now," he said.

He added that there's one thing that Paul doesn't want and that's to go back to Eastern State Hospital or be taken off to jail.

When asked under what conditions Paul's permissions to live at the Carlyle had been revoked, Eastern State Hospital refused to comment.

Now, Redwolf will back me up on this -- Riverfront Park, where his friends met him several times, is more than 6 blocks from the apartment he was living in.

I wonder why he was allowed to bring a backpack to the fair? You don't need a backpack full of things for a couple of hours at the fair. I heard a rumor, and I admit it's only a rumor, that the staff has no idea what was in the backpack.

It's been reported that the people who were supervising the patients at the fair notified the hospital inside of 5 minutes after they noticed him missing, but the hospital waited almost 2 hours before notifying the police, and no one notified the fair until the news crews showed up and started asking questions.

KREM TV has a video of the head of DSHS answering questions about the case at http://www.krem.com/video/featured-inde ... vid=399887 I don't know how long they keep videos on the website but I'm sure it will be there for a few days.

And KREM is now saying the FBI may get involved.

DSHS says they are investigating the case and they should have a report in about 15 days.

There have been quite a few reports of sightings today and each time it was near a school the school went into lockdown. So far the only confirmed sighting was from yesterday when he went into a business and asked for a job application.

[Paul]

After reviewing his files a judge felt that Paul was healthy enough to attend a community college without supervision, so I doubt that he is a serious threat to society, at least no more so than those who drive while distracted, drunk, texting, or engaged in a serious conversation on their cell phones. Those are the people that I worry about as I cruise about town on the 2-way streets.

Well...

Paul was committed after he was acquitted by reason of insanity in the 1987 slaying of an elderly woman in Sunnyside. He soaked the woman's body in gasoline to throw off search dogs and buried the remains in her flower garden.

LINKY

There is a big difference, actually.

Also his OWN brother is quoted in that article as saying (among other things) that despite numerous attempts at rehabilitation he has proven himself unable to live in normal society. He also stated that the man is still unstable and that he was trained in martial arts and that he should not be approached by anyone. The article also states that this is his second escape. The first one ended violently (big surprise) and a deputy sheriff was knocked out in a scuffle with him.

You guys can say what you want about statistics and averages and I'm sure you can find cites to back it up somewhere, but I'm equally sure that the family of the elderly woman who was bled out, doused with gas and planted in her flower garden are pretty upset about this, and rightfully so. I also doubt that they are really concerned about how this unfortunate creature is "labelled" by society.

This is an absolutely ridiculous situation that should NEVER have happened. Hopefully you guys are correct and no one else will be victimized by him.

/Best

[Redwolf]

Is there anything new with this story?

This is from KXLY.com, which is the TV station that first broke the story yesterday:

Now, Redwolf will back me up on this -- Riverfront Park, where his friends met him several times, is more than 6 blocks from the apartment he was living in.

It sure is.

I also wonder how they were monitoring him to be sure he was in compliance? Telling someone "now, don't go more than six blocks away from the building" and making sure they comply are two very different things.

Redwolf

[MTGuru]

Now, Redwolf will back me up on this -- Riverfront Park, where his friends met him several times, is more than 6 blocks from the apartment he was living in.

Never been to Spokane. But looking at the Google map ... If you count the short blocks around W. Sprague and West 1st as half blocks, the southwest corner of Riverside Park is 4 1/2 blocks from the intersection of S. Post and West 2nd.

A minor point, I realize.

[Charlene]

Now, Redwolf will back me up on this -- Riverfront Park, where his friends met him several times, is more than 6 blocks from the apartment he was living in.

Never been to Spokane. But looking at the Google map ... If you count the short blocks around W. Sprague and West 1st as half blocks, the southwest corner of Riverside Park is 4 1/2 blocks from the intersection of S. Post and West 2nd.

A minor point, I realize.

RiverSIDE State Park is entirely different from RiverFRONT Park, which I'm sure is the one you were looking at. (The names are very confusing, especially if you've never been here.) And true, they didn't say where in the park he met his friends. Also inside that radius are a high school, several apartment buildings which cater to the elderly, and hospitals where elderly people tend to go -- seems like it's not the best place for someone convicted of killing an elderly person to be assigned to live. Not that there's any way of changing that now.

[MTGuru]

RiverSIDE State Park is entirely different from RiverFRONT Park

Aha, the reporters (or interviewee) may have made the same mistake. Send me to the back of the class.

[Charlene]

RiverSIDE State Park is entirely different from RiverFRONT Park

Aha, the reporters (or interviewee) may have made the same mistake. Send me to the back of the class.

Oh well, I would have no clue what's in or around Balboa Park if my uncle hadn't lived in San Diego for a while. Spokane isn't exactly on the national radar, except when things like this pop up.

[jim stone]

Read in a story
this morning that this fellow's meds will remain in effect for two weeks after he stops
taking them.

Check such populations of people for what they do at this guy's age 22 years after a violent episode.
See how many of them do violent things. Check escapes. I don't know the answer but I think it might
explain why this fellow was allowed to attend community college, why he was living
in a halfway house, why he was taken to the fair.

Suppose for argument sake that the statistical probability of another crime is remote.
Suppose the statistical probability of escape is remote.
People are still going to go ballistic: 'Insane Killer Escapes!' In any largish population somebody
will kill someone sooner or later. Suppose it's one of these people. Then people will want
to lock them ALL up and throw away the key. And they'll ask: What moron of a judge
could let him go to community college?

Again, caution but realism. There are always going to be risks in treating people like human beings.
Any people. The question is how great the risks are for people like this fellow. We don't know that,
they may actually be quite low. Or shall we forget all that and go by 'Insane Killer Escapes!'

There has been one confirmed sighting. He applied for a job. Every indication is that he
wants to be free and wants to go home. But I know the real reason he walked away from
the fair: He wants to kill and kill again. Old people especially. Just like in the movies.

[Redwolf]

Page 1 at CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/09/19/was ... index.html

No one is saying this guy "wants" to kill. But he is a paranoid schizophrenic; on mulitple occasions he has been driven by his illness to commit violence; and on one of those occasions he murdered an elderly woman in cold blood because his "voices" told him that she was a witch and deserved to die. He's currently out there, with no one to ensure that he takes the meds necessary to keep this kind of thing from happening again.

An interesting statistic to look into would be how many people with schizophrenia stop taking their meds...either because they don't like the way they make them feel (and there's some legitimacy to that...these are powerful drugs), or because they can't afford them.

People with schizophrenia move into and out of reality. Whatever this guy's inclination may be when he's sane (in other words, when he's on his meds and they're working properly...and anyone who loves someone with mental illness can tell you that that's not a precise science either) has very little to do with how he'll act when he's not. With his history, he should never be outside of a supervised environment.

Redwolf

[Charlene]

Investigators have checked his room at ESH and there's only a few socks in the drawers. Do you think maybe he PUT CLOTHES IN THE BACKPACK THAT NOBODY CHECKED which he took to the fair? Sheesh!!!

Here's a link to his legal history: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/sep/19/timeline/

[Charlene]

Yay! He's been caught. Here's the link to the newspaper article: http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2009/s ... dale-wash/