Posting clips

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:15 am

Oooops, overlapped with Arbo while editing my previous.

Suggestions for hornpipe sets:

Harvest Home & Boys of Bluehill

The Home Ruler & Kitty's Wedding
(Two VERY stock session sets!)

Mickey O'Callaghan's & George Riley's
(CRE I #214 & #206 - no other titles given by Breathnach - not seemingly well known tunes, but fine ones.)

Off to California & The Little Stack of Barley
(A Michael Coleman pairing, I believe. I learnt the latter tune from his recording of it, and he had a slightly unusual setting compared to the stock session one...... viz arguments about variant settings I referred to above

)

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 5:29 am

Further on Cronin's Hornpipe - seems is also known as Dennis Murphy's (not him again!) - and the usual sources are not clear at all on its origin - did Cronin actually write it?

Here's what The Fiddler's Companion has:

CRONIN'S HORNPIPE (Cornphíopa Uí Chróinín). AKA and see "Denis Murphy's Hornpipe." Irish, Hornpipe. G Major. Standard tuning. ABB (Miller & Perron): AABB (Breathnach, Cranitch, Mallinson, Tubridy): AA’BB (Moylan). Cranitch (1996) suggests playing this as the first tune of a medley with “Chief O’Neill’s Favorite.” Sources for notated versions: piper Seamas Ennis, 1959 (Dublin, Ireland) [Breathnach]; accordion player Johnny O’Leary (Sliabh Luachra region of the Cork-Kerry border), recorded in recital at Na Píobairí Uilleann, November, 1990 [Moylan]; fiddlers Pádraig O’Keefe, Denis Murphy & Julia Clifford [Miller & Perron]. Breathnach (CRÉ II), 1976; No. 303, pg. 155. Bulmer & Sharpley (Music from Ireland), vol. 1; 69. Cranitch (Irish Fiddle Book); 1996; pg. 76. Mallinson (Enduring), 1995; No. 86, pg. 36. Miller & Perron (Irish Traditional Fiddle Music), 1977; vol. 1, No. 51 (appears as “Denis Murphy’s Hornpipe”). Miller & Perron (Irish Traditional Fiddle Music), 2nd Edition, 2006; pg. 115. Moylan (Johnny O’Leary), 1994; No. 171, pg. 98. Taylor (Crossroads Dance), 1992; No. 56, pg. 43. Tubridy (Irish Traditional Music, vol. 1), 1999; pg. 13. Copely Records 9-113 (78 RPM), Paddy Cronin (195?). Shaskeen ‑ "My Love." Topic 12T309, Pádraig O’Keeffe, Denis Murphy & Julia Clifford - “Kerry Fiddles” (1977).

See also listings at:

Jane Keefer’s Folk Music Index: An Index to Recorded Sources

Alan Ng’s Irishtune.info

X:1
T:Cronin’s Hornpipe
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:G
BA|GABd dBde|gage dega|bage dBGA|BAAG A2 BA|GABd dBde|gage dega|bage dBAB|G2 GF G2:|
|:fg|afdB dega|beed e2 ga|bgaf gedB|BAAG AcBA|GABd dBde|gage dega|bage dBAB|G2 GF G2:|

(Odd that none of them, including Alan Ng, list Planxty's rendition - on The Well Below the Valley album!)

My personal version, from Liam O'Flynn's (I haven't checked back with the recording to see if I've mushed it over the years!) is pretty close to the ABC above, with the exception of the 1st bar of the B music, where I have |:fg|add^c d2 ga|.

Jayhawk, since you asked (pm) for some critique of your playing of the tune beyond my comment on the setting here goes: I think you have a nice pace and hornpipey lilt to it, but it feels slightly jerky/lumpy to me - I think hornpipes should flow quite smoothly through their dotted rhythm (if played dotted, as this one certainly should be). That jerkiness is perhaps partly a breath control thing for you, as your tone sounds a bit fluffy and unfocussed. If you focus your embouchure better, not only will you improve your tone's strength but your air will last longer and your phrasing/continuity will improve - not that you breathe in bad places or anything, but the overall effect needs more flow.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:24 pm

Jem - I enjoyed your hornpipes...but have a preference for the first one. I like my hornpipes simple and bouncy, and the second was more complex than I personally like - not bad, but just not my style of hornpipe.

I was reading, as best I could, your ABCs for Cronin's/Murphy's/Callahan's, and there are other differences other than the Cnat and D mentioned in the A part. For example, the B part of the hornpipe I'm playing has a D# in the second measure (I'm not good with ABCs, but I don't see a D# in the ABCs you list). For me, the B part starts off with:
|:^fg|a^f d^c d ga|bg e^de....

Forgive me if the ABCs are off, but my teacher taught me the tune specifically to get me playing a D# in an Irish tune.

Maybe what I'm playing is a regional variant of the tune named Cronin's. I'm not sure, but I do know playing the sheet music for variants of Cronin's over on the session.org leads to a tune different enough I'd say it's not the same tune.

Eric

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:15 am

Thanks for the comments, Jayhawk - not sure I see what you mean about "complexity", though - I don't think there's much difference between them either structurally or in terms of technical demands. Ignoring twiddly variation and just looking at the basic tunes, maybe First Hour is more melodically complex and First Great a bit more technical with all the slurred leaps (which were what I wrote it for, actually), but I'd say they were both pretty middle-of-the road in hornpipe terms - compare them with, say, The Peacock's Feather or The Rights of Man or any of those I mentioned in my last post.

Back to Cronin's, - I know what you mean about The Session - I don't tend to go there for tunes save as a last resort as so many of the versions are duff/badly transcribed. I too play an Eb/D# in the 2nd bar of the B music (the ABC I posted was straight from Fiddler's Companion, not what I play), thus, including the 1st bar: |:fg|add^c d2 ga|bee^d e2 ga| with the remainder just as Fiddler's Companion has it.

I wonder if Peter Laban or anyone else knows if Paddy Cronin actually wrote that tune or whether it is just a "x's favourite" kind of appellation, as is clearly the case with its Dennis Murphy association? It doesn't seem to be in any of the older collections, so it could well be a fairly recent composition. Regardless of its origins, I suppose this is a nicely illustrative case of the problem of when does someone's mistake in transmission or mis-remembering or technical deficiency leading to a fudging of a tune (as opposed to deliberate "artisitic" variation or technical limitations of a different instrument necessitating an alteration) become a "regional variation" or otherwise legitimate alternate version?

mahanpots · Post by **mahanpots** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 7:16 am

jemtheflute wrote:Thanks for the comments, Jayhawk - not sure I see what you mean about "complexity", though - I don't think there's much difference between them either structurally or in terms of technical demands.

To me, Jem's first hornpipe had a better flow than the second. And perhaps that lack of flow (I don't know how else to describe what I mean) in the second tune leads to its sounding complex or difficult to follow. The second tune, First Great..., may be a good exercise in slurred leaping, but it doesn't flow like the first one, or like Rights of Man either.

I love the first one, though, especially the beginning of the second part. Are there dots to share with that one, Jem? Thanks for sharing.

Any comments on the hornpipes below? I had to cut off the second tune because the phone rang.

Michael

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:20 am

Nice hornpipes, Michael - generally good flow and rhythm to your way with them, apart from a couple of places where jumps to higher notes are a bit forced and sorta jump out at the listener!

Will see what I can do about dots as requested....

mahanpots · Post by **mahanpots** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 8:55 am

Thanks Jem. I've been working on controlling those higher notes. I appreciate the comments.

Michael

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 9:36 am

Here they are - ABCs & dots for whoever fancies........

Enjoy!

X:1
T:The (First) Great Ballyvourney Flute Meeting
R:Hornpipe
C:Jem Hammond 25:4:2006
N:dedicated to Harry Bradley
O:written in Wales by an Irish music-playing Englishman
Z:Jem Hammond 12:5:2006
M:4/4
L:1/8
Q:160
K:D
{D/}E2 | F>DG>D A>DB>D | f>d A>F G2 e>f | g>ef>d c>ed>B | (3ABc B>G {E/}F>AG>F |
{D/}E>DF>D G>DA>D | B>Dc>D d>D d>e | f>df>a b>ag>f | e>d (3cAc d2 :|]|: e>d
| c>eA>e f>dA>f | g>e f>d (3cde A>e | b>gf>g e>d'c'>a | (3geg (3fdf e2 A>G |
F>A (3ABA E>A (3ABA | D>FA>d e>cA>f | g>ef>d c>ea>g | f>d (3cAc d2 :|] D2 |]

Jayhawk - the second one has a D# in it! (as well as Cnat/C# dichotomy and an alternative low C# if you have the key and fancy it......)

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:01 am

Jem - alas, I'm without the low C & C# keys and have to get by with the standard 6 key set-up.

I'm also too cheap to upgrade to an 8 keyed delrin flute - I think Des Seery is the only polymer flute maker to slap on the bottom two keys and the exchange rate, and my current poverty, would not allow such an expensive purchase.

Then again, keys are a bit like the arms race in the cold war - once you have them you tend to want more...then you end up with one of those 12 keyed Vienniese flutes down to low G and end up poking your session mates more often because your flute is now too long.

I'll just have to jump up an octave.

Eric

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 10:17 am

Ah well, one can't have everything! It is only an optional variation - and substituting an F# will serve as a fudge if you really want to do the triplets.

Here are a couple of (new recorded) tracks of trad hornpipes I know - including my take on the one that started all this, Cronin's.

Mickey O'Callaghan's & George Riley's.

The Fisherman's Lilt & Cronin's Hornpipe.

EDIT/ADDITION:

While I'm having a self-indulgent tootling sort of a day, here's one for Arbo in particular. The Monaghan Jig. I don't think I've done it before, at least, not on flute (I usually play it on low whistle for preference anyway). I don't pretend to be an adequate substitute for Rob, but maybe it will do as a stop gap until he gets around to it?????????

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:24 pm

jemtheflute wrote:
While I'm having a self-indulgent tootling sort of a day, here's one for Arbo in particular. The Monaghan Jig. I don't think I've done it before, at least, not on flute (I usually play it on low whistle for preference anyway). I don't pretend to be an adequate substitute for Rob, but maybe it will do as a stop gap until he gets around to it?????????

Fair play to you Jem! I enjoyed that!
Arbo

mahanpots · Post by **mahanpots** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:32 pm

Jem. Nice bunch of hornpipes there. I found some a version online that seems pretty close except for the sixth measure of the B section where you go down to a low D cran I believe. Sounds nice. Here's what I found:

X: 1
T:Fisherman's Lilt
R:hornpipe
Z

mahanpots · Post by **mahanpots** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:55 pm

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daiv · Post by **daiv** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:01 pm

here is a clip of my playing. i was asked to upload a clip, and so i have. i generally do not upload any videos, because i am inconsistent with my rhythm.

here is the clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37H3uhjf_Z8

as of now, the video will not play more than a second; i downloaded the video off of youtube, and it works, so the file should work as soon as scheduled maintenance is done.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:02 pm