totally wooden flutes

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Wed Sep 10, 2003 6:09 pm

Michel wrote:I have to disagree here,even altough I know that is mainly a matter of taste.
Why the better examples of 19th century english flutes such as R&R or Boosey&Hawkes do have lined headpieces?
Why the best modern flute makers make their flutes in the traditional
way?
Personally a like a lot that bright, slightly metallic edge given to the tone by a traditional headjoint, and also the flute seems to be freer and stronger,IMHO. I feel that the internal lining has an important role if the
player is looking for a penetrant,reedy timbre.
Anybody here who knows WHY the old english makers were used to
make lined headpieces? I would love to know that.
Ciao
Michel

First, eilam is right; not all 19th English makes had lined heads, though many-to-most did. This is most probably more because it was the easiest and cheapest way to make a good slide, and not because it sounded better, necessarily. Having gotten used to that sound, of course, makes it the sound of choice for many, and there you're quite right.
Second, which "best" modern makers are you referring to? Several "best" I can think of offhand make their flutes unlined now, or at least partially unlined, accounting for the slide. Most do it in the belief that the flutes are less likely to crack, as well as touting the more wooden sound delivered. I personally think what's arguable is the idea that unlined crack less than lined.
So, really, it goes to what sounds better, and then we're dealing with changing tastes, players and moods. The old lined R&Rs sound great, for a number of reasons, and if you want a replica sound, you'd better have a lined head. Nowadays, more people are responding to the sound of unlined heads as a bit mellower and more natural, which is true for woods like boxwood, but far less noticeable on a blackwood flute. In any case, the heads are physically lighter this way, and not a matter of which is better, but which you like more.
Gordon

Michel · Post by **Michel** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:21 am

Eilam and Gordon,nice to know that R&R and other important London
makers made also unlined heads, haven't see one yet. Perhaps they
were made after a particular request of the customer,or they were
made earlier than the golden age of R&R flutes (1840's)
Gordon, in my opinion the best modern makers are those who make
instruments for the best fluteplayers, or more widely, those who are
highly respected in Ireland, that is plenty of brilliant fluteplayers!!!
Here in Italy I have saw two cracked hairpieces(!), one lined and one
unlined.Both were owned by people that don't play the flute on a
daily,regular basis. If I can't play the flute for more than three days,
I give it a light coat of oil, at least 5 or 6 hours before bringing it to
a session or a gig.I've never had problems.
Ciao
Michel

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 5:32 am

Perhaps Mr Migoya would fill us in on unlined Rudall & Rose flutes ?.I seem to think that an ivory mounted John Willis flute I was offeres a while back was unlined ( and a very good flute ) .

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 7:04 am

Played an all-wood blackwood flute in a session last night; it
really worked quite nicely, has good volume but
seems to blend with other
instruments well. For me, anyway, there seems a
real difference between blackwood all-wood flutes
and those with lined heads: metal sounds different to me
from blackwood. Definitely a matter of taste,
I agree. I like both sounds, in fact.

I wonder if all-wood flutes are more likely to
shift about, get out of tune and need adjusting.
A metal lined head would seem to lend an
instrument stability. Any experiences?

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:54 am

Perhaps people interested in no or part slide flutes should look at Monzani's which were often sold with a pair of heads. One I have before me ha a wooden head playing at A= 430 and a partial slide head playing at A= 437 .they sound different but both quite good. They rarely seem to sound great

andrew · Post by **andrew** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 10:34 am

Sorry , I've just checked .The all wooden flute is the higher pitch .I wonder what was going on in 1818 when the flute was made .I have been comparing it with a flute made some years later by Hill , his mate ( with a low B knob) which seens to be at A=440 or close on .I sometimes wonder if wooden flutes are safer to airfreight than lined flutes, holds being so very cold .One , a wood & ivory flute ( 1 brass key ) which puzzles me is in stained boxwood stamped M H Oppenheim .It ought to be early judging by the tiny ( 9 mm ) embouchere .I used to assume that flutes at A= 440 were 19th C or 20th C till I read about the A=440 Grenser and the 'corista Veneto ' pitch of A= 440 which prevailed there while Northern Europe languished at A= 390

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » Thu Sep 11, 2003 2:08 pm

Michel wrote:Gordon, in my opinion the best modern makers are those who make
instruments for the best fluteplayers, or more widely, those who are
highly respected in Ireland, that is plenty of brilliant fluteplayers!!! Ciao
Michel

Yes, but many good makers make unlined heads; in Ireland, Hamilton, makes an unlined flute (or, rather, partial, with slide), and he is often the maker for many of the best flute players (Conal O'Grada plays Hammy's flutes, for eg.). Outside Ireland, Terry Mcgee, Noy (I think), Healy, and several others.
Gordon

Michel · Post by **Michel** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 3:37 am

That's true Gordon.Hamilton and also Sam Murray do make good flutes
with unlined headpieces, altough the later was used to make lined headpieces in the past. But I prefer other makers, who use lined heads.
Ciao
Michel

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Sat Sep 13, 2003 5:32 pm

Who makes all-wood flutes and how much are they?

Casey Burns blackwood costs 625.
I believe Patrick O. makes one?

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:52 pm

Interesting. I was just going to ask here about the Dixon wood flutes. I can't see a tuning slide at the pictures on his site and neighter does he mention it, more than saying that the head is unlined. So I was wondering if anyone have experience with thouse. Are they tunable anyway? Are the tenons long enough to serve as tuning slides and does the problem Glauber mentions occure? I mean that with the canyon in the bore as a result of the tenon and socket beeing pulled too far apart.

Jayhawk · Post by **Jayhawk** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 1:59 pm

Blackbeer has one. If I recall correctly, he really likes it, you can tune fine with the tenons, etc. I have the polymer one, and I have no problems tuning up or down with mine. It's in tune with with tenon out about 1/8 to 1/4 inch (I'm way too lazy to measure it now).

Eric

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 2:58 pm

Now that I look closer, the wooden flutes is excluded from Tony's price list.
Arrrgh

Don't tell me he's stoped making them or I'll become really mad. But fortunatly, Tony is a nice man, surely he must be able to make one as a special order, if they really are not in his regular range anymore.

cocusflute · Post by **cocusflute** » Fri Sep 19, 2003 4:07 pm

The Marvelous McEvoy plays an old Rudall Rose with an unlined head. Her tone is pure and focused. Martin Doyle makes wonderful flutes with partially lined heads-- as do several other fine makers. Doyle's flutes are rich, powerful, and beautifully made. He is certainly an under-acclaimed maker whose flutes are very reasonably priced.
I've no doubt that if a poll were conducted it would appear that flutes with fully-lined heads evidence more of a crack problem than those with partial or no metal lining. It is obvious, is it not, that the metal lining will expand faster than the wood surround? But what might not be so obvious is that as the flute shrinks around the metal lining the wood will crack, because the metal cannot shrink accordingly.

Blackbeer · Post by **Blackbeer** » Sun Sep 21, 2003 8:54 am

Henke it would truely be a shame if Tony no longer makes his wooden flute. Mine is in rosewood and is truely a pleasure to play. It is lite and very well made. The tone holes are kinda small but the volume is there if you want it. There is no tuning slide but mine is dead on as far as tuning goes. I don`t play with other instruments so I have never had the need to try and tune to someone else but I believe it would be possible to a limited degree. The price is sure right and Tony is a great guy to know. He used to make them in both rosewood and blackwood though his personel favorite is the rosewood. I sure highly recommend it and I sure don`t consider it a lessor flute. Now I must get back to watching the clock and counting the minutes until my Lehart arrives............

Tom

Henke · Post by **Henke** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:25 am

Blackbeer wrote:Henke it would truely be a shame if Tony no longer makes his wooden flute. Mine is in rosewood and is truely a pleasure to play. It is lite and very well made. The tone holes are kinda small but the volume is there if you want it. There is no tuning slide but mine is dead on as far as tuning goes. I don`t play with other instruments so I have never had the need to try and tune to someone else but I believe it would be possible to a limited degree. The price is sure right and Tony is a great guy to know. He used to make them in both rosewood and blackwood though his personel favorite is the rosewood. I sure highly recommend it and I sure don`t consider it a lessor flute. Now I must get back to watching the clock and counting the minutes until my Lehart arrives............

Tom

I contacted Tony on the matter and he said it was simply a foult on the update of his ne pricelist design.
However, he said that he is unable to take orders of wooden flutes at the moment due to the enormous success of his polymer flutes and oversized waiting lists. I will get back to him later, in a couple of months perhaps to see if his atleast willing to take an order. You wouldn't consider selling yours when your new Lehart arrives? Pleaaaazzze

Chiff and Fipple Forums

totally wooden flutes

Unlined head