Low d whistle or flute

[deisman]

Would anyone care to elaborate on how the flute is "more expressive" than a low D? Isn't that the player more than the instrument? I don't see why there would be a technical difference between the two that would limit the expressive potential of a low D. Assuming non-keyed flute vs 6-hole low D.

Best,

Deisman

[Mitch]

Hey there- I am a newbie to all of this, having spent a lifetime playing the boehm flute. So am I better off picking up a low whistle or a flute? Do they sound the same? Is one more versatile than the other? Thanks in advance for any advice you could give me.

The Irish style flute and the low whistle are 2 completely different instruments. You should get both.

If you are used to the boehm style keyed-flute, you would probably appreciate Terry McGee's embouchure cut - have a look at his website http://www.mcgee-flutes.com/ . However, there are many top-class flute makers to investigate - check out the flute forum here for more on flutes.

Low whistles are a different beastie. They sound different to flutes and the playing characteristics lend them to different expressive styles. The dynamic range on a low whistle is limited by the fixed embachure, it is true, however, you will find yourself reaching for a whistle to get sounds and a playing style that a flute cannot get. Once again, there are many top notch makers to investigate - a low whislte is very much like the higher types, they are inexpensive - even for very good ones - but they are a bit more expensive than the small whistles.

Get both

[Bothrops]

I like both, and I would also recommend you to get both, but if I had to choose only one, I'd go with the irish flute, for sure.

[pancelticpiper]

Novaman, I've spent the last 30+ years playing both Irish flute and low whistle, and the bottom line is pretty much what Mr Stone mentions.

The flute is much more flexible because, as you well know, changes in embouchure can give a wide variety of timbres (tone colours) and volume. So you can make the flute sound hollow and tubby, or nasal and biting, etc. You can play the lowest notes on the instrument very powerfully and play the highest notes feather-soft.

The Low D Whistle has a fixed tone-production mechanism, meaning that it only produces an in-tune note at one blowing pressure. So, if you play in tune, you are limited in what you can do in the way of altering volume for expressive purposes. Also each Low D Whistle represents a design compromise: if a whistle is designed so that the low notes (especially low D, E, and F#) are more powerful, the high notes (especially high A and B, the highest normally found in Irish traditional music) will be too harsh, loud, and squawky. If the whistle is designed so that high A and B are sweet and soft, low E and F# will be wimpy.
A lot has to do with bore size: the bigger the bore the more powerful the low notes and the more harsh the high notes, the smaller the bore the sweeter the high notes and the wimpier the low notes.
Now that's not to say that there aren't low D whistles out there that sound and play great. There are. But, NO low D whistle can play low notes as powerfully, and high notes as sweet, as a flute.

Stylistically both instruments (low D whistle and Irish flute) are very similar, the main difference being that traditionally most Irish fluteplayers did little or no tonguing. Traditional high-whistle players did a lot of tonguing. The Low D Irish Whistle, being a recent invention, has had to find its voice, its style, and it seems to have settled in sort of halfway between the Irish flute and the high Irish whistle. Many low D whistle players play in more of a piping style than you often hear either on flute or high whistle. I myself do not tongue at all on the Irish flute, tongue a lot on the high whistle, and tongue a bit on the low D whistle.

I've taught a great many Irish flute workshops over the years and it's often very difficult for people with a Boehm flute background to "get" the Irish approach to phrasing and articulation. They always ALWAYS tongue too much, wanting to create each 8th-note of a rapid reel or jig as a seperate entity, and it's hard for them to come round to the Irish approach where these 8th-notes are simply part of an overall flow and have little individual value. Irish flute/whistle players do a lot of things with their fingers that you're used to doing with your breath and tongue: vibrato, notebending, and articulation. Whichever you choose, flute or low whistle, you'll have to recreate your approach from the ground up, if you're ever to sound "native".

By all means get the best Irish flute and low whistle you can. Coming from the Boehm flute you have developed rather high expectations of what an instrument can do, and these will only be met by a top-notch Irish flute and low whistle. You won't be satisfied, I think, with poor-peforming instruments. You can read on this form endless discussions of what's the best Low D, what's the best Irish flute. Read as many discussion as you can, and though the amount of information and the variety of opinion will perhaps be overwhelming, the overall truth does eventually come out.

[BigDavy]

Hi pancelticpiper

Would the piping style of playing low D whistle not be explained by the fact that the low D first came into use in ITM via the piping fraternity.

David

[deisman]

Hi Pancelticpiper,

Thanks for the good info regarding flutes & low Ds... I've only been at this less than 2 years so still finding my way - and having a great time. I see better now what I should strive for in my flute playing.

Happy Holidays to all!

Deisman

[Anita]

So a question for you all here- does the low D whistle and the irish flute cover the same notes/octaves??

[hans]

So a question for you all here- does the low D whistle and the irish flute cover the same notes/octaves??

Yes, if you mean the unkeyed irish type D flute.

~Hans

[pancelticpiper]

So a question for you all here- does the low D whistle and the irish flute cover the same notes/octaves??

Well that's actually a question which requires two different answers.

1) If playing the traditional Irish woodwind repertoire, the shared repertoire between the flute played in the traditional manner, the whistle, and the uilleann pipes, yes, the Low Whistle in D and the Irish flute in D cover the same notes, from bottom D up to B in the 2nd register, the highest note normally found in traditional tunes. There are a very small number of tunes which have high C. This note is possibly avoided in the traditional repertoire because it requires the fiddler to shift position, something the traditional fiddlers rarely did.

The old-time traditional fluteplayers did not use the low C and C# available on the footjoint (often removing those keys and/or rotating the footjoint so that the pinkie couldn't reach the touches anyway). Also they did not normally use the other keys, the keys for F natural, G sharp, B flat, and C natural (this last done with crossfingering by Irish players). In fact in the old days it was quite common to see Irish players playing antique 8-key flutes which had had all the keys removed and the holes plugged, sometimes the entire flute wrapped with electrical tape etc.

2) We must keep in mind that the "Irish flute" is a misnomer and these flutes were originally made in London for the purpose of playing Classical (actually usually Romantic) orchestral music, not folk music. The orchestral music was often written up in the 3rd register and was highly chromatic. So, these instruments, if played in the manner they were originally intended to be played, played a much greater gamut than is possible on the Low D Irish Whistle.

It's perhaps easy for people who are recent to ITM, and see specially-made "Irish flutes" on the market and in the hands of players, to realise that only a few decades ago such did not exist and all Irish fluteplayers played upon 100-year-old antiques not originally intended for Irish music.

[Anita]

thanks all as usual

Anita

[Guinness]

The Irish style flute and the low whistle are 2 completely different instruments...Low whistles are a different beastie. They sound different to flutes and the playing characteristics lend them to different expressive styles. The dynamic range on a low whistle is limited by the fixed embachure, it is true, however, you will find yourself reaching for a whistle to get sounds and a playing style that a flute cannot get.

A significant reason why whistles players eventually take an interest in the flute is because of the instrument's ability to compress the dynamic range and control the timbre of the two octaves that are played in ITM. Also the flute can generally be played more quickly than the low D whistle (don't try this at home). On the other hand, I would argue that it's easier to bend, swell, and half-hole notes on the low D, depending on the instrument -- the "nya" and shakuhachi-like sound that's so strongly identified with Davy Spillane. So I agree with Mitch that they are different instruments lending themselves to different expressive styles. Flute is ultimately more flexible but it doesn't win in every department.

[mutepointe]

A perspective from non-musicians:

I have a few whistles, a hall crystal flute, and a boehm flute that I play in the folk group at church. People think because the instruments look different and are held differently that I play a multitude of instruments. I play the whistle and crystal flute left-handed and the boehm flute right-handed. Even musicians get confused by the orientation of the flutes. Go for the wow factor.

[hoopy mike]

I have a few whistles, a hall crystal flute, and a boehm flute that I play in the folk group at church. People think because the instruments look different and are held differently that I play a multitude of instruments...

Ok - confession time...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6BKfkw1aO ... annel_page

[mutepointe]

That was nice hoppy. How many instruments can you hold at one time? I keep the harmonicas in my pockets in alphabetical order. I found it easy to wear the guitar and play the whistle and crystal flute. Only recently have I achieved wearing the guitar while playing the boehm flute. I can only play one instrument at a time but during a Catholic service, songs pop up one after the other.

[hoopy mike]

That was nice hoppy...

hoppy? Two legs - count 'em...

How many instruments can you hold at one time?

Usually not enough. I do have special whistling trousers which help though.