Does a Burke D really sound like this

[HissingSid]

To take this thread further off on a tangent.

Is the whistle Pat Tierney is playing on this a Susato Kildare?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pLklK-GCc

Cheers

HS

[Hotblack]

One thing I will add to my post above is that it's very difficult to make the Dixon squeak but it doesn't take much breath to play it. The Mellow Dog needs more puff and better breath control, especially in the upper octave or else it'll squeak like buggery.

[fearfaoin]

Is the whistle Pat Tierney is playing on this a Susato Kildare?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pLklK-GCc

Yup. You can almost read the name
in one of the closeups (around 1:07).
Great playing, but still sounds a little
plastic-y to me.

[Feadoggie]

Thanks to every one who has contributed to this thread.

I guess there's a few schools of thought on getting a pro whistle.

1. Wait till you can play like a pro then get one.

2. Buy one early it will inspire you to play better.

3. Don't waste your money you'll become disillusioned and give up in a few months.

4. Buy one anyway to help the economy and keep brilliant craftsmen in work.

I think I may leave it for a few months but I'm a bit disillusioned with the whistles I have.

I started with a Generation "D" brass but it kind of squawks occasionally and it does not give me positive feedback. I've since bought a Dixon ( the all polymer un-tuneable one) and a Clarke Sweetone both in "D". The Clarke I just don't really like the feel of, the ridge on the back and the small holes don't really suit me. It doesn't squawk but I don't like the sound at all. The Dixon I can't really put my finger on why I don't really like it but I don't. I think I should have bought Dixon trad rather than his cheapest polymer whistle.

Having spent very little but been disappointed I'm now thinking should I try a Dixon Trad or a Freeman tweaked Mellow Dog or spend £100(ish) more on something I will not be disappointed with. Hence why I was thinking Burke or Sindt. Neither are horrendously expensive but I think I would get a Burke sooner than I'd get a Sindt because of the waiting list.

Mind you if I ordered a Sindt and practices as obsessively as I am at the moment until it came I might then be able to do it justice.

I’ve also toyed with the idea of a bike trip up to Scotland visiting Alba Whistles and come back via Merlin on Easdale Island. I want to go back to Easdale anyway. From there you can take a trip on a fast RIB to the Gulf of Corryvreckan, between the islands of Jura and Scarba. At certain states of the tide there is a huge whirlpool here and they sit the boat in it, cut the engines and you are taken around in ever decreasing circles.

Anyway any further suggestions would be very much appreciated.

Cheers

HS

I think you have another option and you hit on it in your original post. Spend time looking for and listening to good music and good players, on CD, MP3, YouTube or whatever. Listen to the music. Play the music. Go to a workshop or two. Emulate what you hear from the good players. It will come to you in time. We all offered clip examples based on the whistles you mentioned first. There are plenty of great clips of people playing Generations, Feadogs, etc. It's no accident that these players sound the way they do. They put in the hard hours in the woodshed practicing and developing their sound. It's really not the whistle although it is a contributor to the final sound.

I've owned hundreds of whistles and I make my own now. There are a lot of very good whistles available out there but what distinguishes one from another is all judged according to personal tastes and preferences. It took me years to define my personal tastes and preferences in whistles. It can be great fun buying new whistles. Still it's probably best to start with one whistle that works well (for you) and spend as much time playing it as you can. Which whistle you go forward with is up to you. If you like a traditional sound and dynamics, the Gen is fine (I like Feadogs too). If you want a more open sound, the Dixon polymer is a very capable whistle too.

Dixon, Burke, Sindt, Abell, Alba, Susato (yes, Tierney is playing a Susato) are all capable whistles. Pick one and play, play, play! You'll get there. It's just a long but pleasant journey you are embarking on.

Feadoggie

[RDC]

Hello, HS!

Congratulations on starting on a new adventure with the Irish whistle. I began playing Irish whistle only two years ago, taking it up on a whim following a trip to Ireland as a chaperon on a high school band trip. I had recently turned 50 and I wanted celebrate the event by learning something new. Being married to a professional musician (cello) and having two very talented teenagers capable of playing multiple instruments very well (piano, violin, trumpet, drums, guitar, French horn), I knew the quality of the sound produced by my new instrument was important if I was to ever play in the house. The tone and in-tune quality of the original Walton whistle I bought in Ireland was, well, rather rough on the ears. So, after spending quite a bit of time on C&F reading opinions from long-time players, I decided to purchase a Burke D.

My view, which based on living for many years in a house full of music and musicians, is that if you want to learn a new instrument, you will do well to learn on one that is well-made. Doing so more fully allows one to work on notation, phrasing, ornamentation, and so on without having to fight the instrument for every cut, strike, crann, and roll. I have been extremely happy with my Burke D Brass Session whistle.

A couple further suggestions:

- Keep watch on the Chiff & Fipple Sold & Old Forum. Usually very good whistle prices from always very nice folks.
- I managed a reasonable degree of self-teaching though Grey Larsen's "The Essential Tin Whistle Toolbox," which I found in our city library. I have since purchased his "The Essential Guide to Irish Flute and Tin Whistle."

Best regards,

RDC

[m31]

I'm a bit disillusioned with the whistles I have.

I am reminded of a childhood story book (beautifully illustrated with B&W photos), where a young boy frustrated with his violin puts it in the garbage. An old man walks by, picks it up and begins playing beautiful music. Boy wants violin back.

PS: Anyone know the name of this book?

[JayDoc]

I know there are free training videos on youtube, but I'd add that I really have learned much from Blayne Chastaine's training video series (www.blaynechastain --then click on the iTeach button). It does cost a small subscription fee, but it's, imho, the next best thing to a live teacher--he plays a tune with ornaments, then simple, then goes through it phrase by phrase without ornaments (by the way, I know "ornaments" might not be the best word for such articulations) then again with the articulations/ornaments. He repeats the phrases so you can play along, adds a new tune every week, alternating between whistle and flute. I have no personal commercial interest in this, but am just an enthusiastic student (took a couple of real live lessons in London last year, and hope to do so again this summer). I think it works very well for a beginner/intermediate player, at least. Of course, ultimately no teacher can teach if you don't practice, practice, practice, like others said above--I think I'll stop and play my whistle for a bit (slaving away at the office, but the place is empty).
Best,
JD

[HissingSid]

I am reminded of a childhood story book (beautifully illustrated with B&W photos), where a young boy frustrated with his violin puts it in the garbage. An old man walks by, picks it up and begins playing beautiful music. Boy wants violin back.

Point taken but I agree with RDC about not having to fight with your instrument. And I really want to believe that one day I'll make my whistle sound something like the soloist does in the video linked to from my first post, or like Pat Tierney does. If I can't hold on to that belief I'll probably give up.

The good news is I've tweaked my Generation whistle last night and am very pleased with the result. Now when it doesn't sound good I'm pretty sure that it's my fault so even that bad feedback is positive.

I've signed up to http://www.blaynechastain.com/

You guys, Ryan Dunns and web sites like this one make you realise how fantastic the Internet is.

When I was I think 14 I bought a Generation in "C". It came with a leaflet with a few tunes on it and I learned how to play those just tonguing the notes. Then I hit a brick wall I couldn't find a way to get access to tunes I wanted to learn to play so I put the whistle down. I still have it but a pup at some time in my life got hold of it and bit the end of the tube. Fortunately it was the bottom end and the mouth piece is still OK. I've ordered a new "C" so that I can try my old mouth piece on a new tube.

The Internet is what makes learning this instrument so accessible. I also now realise that there are many books and CDs available that I was just unaware of. I've ordered The Complete Tin Whistle Tutor by L. E. McCullough that someone recommended on this forum.

Now I just need to continue to share the obsession that you all have and practice, practice, practice. I'm going to keep back buying a top notch whistle as a reward to myself when I stick at it.

Many thanks

HS

[jim stone]

Nah.
'The future is uncertain. Eat desert first.'
The simple principle by which I live.

If one has the money. a new good whistle is a good
way to keep at practicing.

Old 'Serpent in the Garden' Jimmy

[squidgirl]

I know there are free training videos on youtube, but I'd add that I really have learned much from Blayne Chastaine's training video series (http://www.blaynechastain --then click on the iTeach button).

No commercial interest here either, but I'm another very satisfied customer. I believe there's a sample lesson or two you can access if you sign up with your email address. I did this and had such fun with it that I signed up immediately. The way he teaches a tune phrase by phrase has really helped me wean myself off of learning tunes from sheet music.

I'll be a voice of dissent on the Burke -- when the stars align, and my breath control can hold the edge, I get the most gorgeous ringing silvery chiffy-edgey sound from my Freeman Blackbird or Cillian Ó Briain Improved Feadog. It's the sound I fell in love with listening to my trad Irish whistle recordings. I can sometimes get it on some other whistles -- my Parks Everywhistle, with the tone ring turned just so, was the whistle that taught me the trick, but that one takes a bit more wind than I usually have to spare.

Yet try as I might, I just can't get my Burke to ring out that way. It almost feels like it's designed to prevent precisely that sound -- which is, I will admit, is breath-wise adjacent to a very raspy/shrill screeching chiff-gone-bad sound. But my target sound is silvery instead, and takes surprisingly little breath for such a ringing tone.

Does anyone else know what I'm talking about here? Can you get your Burke to do it? How?

[s1m0n]

Don't leave the player out of the overall tone equation either. Joanie Madden sounds like Joanie Madden on every whistle I have heard her play. Sir Jimmy sounds like Sir Jimmy on a Generation too.

And back in the seventies Mary Bergin was wringing sounds of jewel-like purity out of an unmodified generation, if you listen to Feadóga Stáin. I greatly doubt there was much if any audio post-production, so sometimes it really is the player.

[HissingSid]

The subtleties of breath control are truly remarkable. The received wisdom is that the tin whistle is one of the easiest instruments to learn. I wonder if that should be easiest to learn how to tongue out Mary Had a Little Lamb but far from easiest to learn how to get the best from it.

Mary Bergin's breath control is a perfect marriage with unmodified Generation whistles. I wonder if she has tried others and has been disappointed that even she can't make the sound that her ears and brain are expecting.

I guess that the easy thing to do is to blame the whistle when in reality it is capable of making the noise you want and eventually you will find a way of getting it to produce it. The whistle doesn't change you do. Having said that it is clear that some whistles suit some people and not others. When I'm playing a slow air I want to sound like that soloist playing the Burke rather than Sir JG on the Abell. Ask me in a couple of years how I got on.

Cheers

HS

PS Can playing one of these things become additive in the true chemical effect on the brain meaning of the word addictive?

[jim stone]

D Gens used to be much more consistently good. I had some in the early 80s that were super.
Occasionally these surface.
And even now, when Gen quality control seems to have slipped vastly, some D Gens are good.
I've spent lots of money trying to find one; finally Jerry F saved me.
I would expect that Mary B was playing an older Gen or a good new one if her
whistle wasn't tweaked. That doesn't mean that the one you buy in a store
is going to be playable, unfortunately. There are other inexpensive whistles that are much
more consistently good. If your Gen squawks you are hardly alone in thinking
it's the whistle. Folly to try to improve till you can play it. Same goes for any
whistle a newbie can't play--even if it's a good whistle. Get something
you can play.

[NicoMoreno]

I've played through batches of 20 or so Generations and found them to be very consistent, with no real noticeable difference in sound or playability. This whole notion of "Generations have poor quality control" is not accurate in my opinion. One of my go-to D whistles is a Generation that I picked after playing through a batch of approx. 20 whistles and finding basically no difference between almost all but a couple, and even there, the differences were so minor that a beginner wouldn't be able to tell. I picked the one I bought more or less at random, although it might be a tiny bit sweeter sounding than the rest. Maybe.

Generations are definitely my recommended whistle when buying a batch for a school or workshop or class or whatever, as you are pretty much guaranteed to have them all be good whistles.

[s1m0n]

The early ninties gens had brutal quality control, IMO. Three out of ten would be awful, six playable in varying degrees, and one would be good. The numbers would dwindle if the shop wasn't good at stopping people from cherrypicking the playable examples. Any stale stock was likely to be ugly.

I doubt Mary's favorite D whistle was randomly selected, but it was a generation. At the time, (1979) there were Clarkes, and Dave Shaw had begun making his conical-bore whistles in C and D (dunno about when his other keys became available. He was making rolled-tin whistles in D before Clarke) but I don't believe there was any good alternative to the gen for tubular (I'd write 'tubiform', but I'm not sure we can stand a repeat of the recent hilarity) whistles.