Hello from a beginner + burning question...

[Mockingbird]

"a 'spoonfeeders' dream"...

[Googles for Clarke book]

Thank you!!!

I am *so* relieved to hear the ornamentation part starts to come naturally after a while. I was secretly afraid I was impaired, or something. So, I'll get it? Eventually? Whew.

I am generally playing the tunes I'm learning right now without any ornamentation except a cut or tap here and there (as demonstrated by one of my cyber teachers), but I do find the tonguing (once I got a better explanation of it) helps me control my breathing better. I was playing without tonguing for a while (using glottal stops, actually) and found myself gasping!

Thank you for all the advice (and haiku)! Will do!

I think I'll go practice while hubby's out on his errand, so I won't drive him crazy with my repetitiveness. Anybody else feel self-conscious practicing with people around?

[cavefish]

"a 'spoonfeeders' dream"...

[Googles for Clarke book]

Thank you!!!

I am *so* relieved to hear the ornamentation part starts to come naturally after a while. I was secretly afraid I was impaired, or something. So, I'll get it? Eventually? Whew.

I am generally playing the tunes I'm learning right now without any ornamentation except a cut or tap here and there (as demonstrated by one of my cyber teachers), but I do find the tonguing (once I got a better explanation of it) helps me control my breathing better. I was playing without tonguing for a while (using glottal stops, actually) and found myself gasping!

Thank you for all the advice (and haiku)! Will do!

I think I'll go practice while hubby's out on his errand, so I won't drive him crazy with my repetitiveness. Anybody else feel self-conscious practicing with people around?

my wife used to not like it---------but that is how it goes------- as far as ornamentation goes , as you practice and get faster , BY ACCIDENT you will come to find some good ornaments also----check out viny kilduf and brian finnigan,seamus Egan they have some good ornamentation--- i use barfly to write my "ornamental" thoughts down and then i can hear what they sound like fast- it gives a little Boost and excitement

[Mick Down Under]

...Anybody else feel self-conscious practicing with people around?

Yes, in the beginning. Now, only when there are lots of people (strangers) around. Fine with friends and family though.


Mick.

[MTGuru]

as far as ornamentation goes , as you practice and get faster , BY ACCIDENT you will come to find some good ornaments also

Whoa, before anyone goes over a cliff ...

Yes, there's plenty of room for creative variation. But learning the fundamentals of good trad ornamentation (articulation) is not a matter of making stuff up or stumbling into it by accident. There's a basic, fairly well-defined vocabulary of figures that needs to be mastered, including finger movements and careful timing. After which careful listening to good trad players, or a good teacher or mentor, is the path to understanding the possibilities of variation and combination and how to incorporate those into your own playing.

i use barfly to write my "ornamental" thoughts down and then i can hear what they sound like fast

If this means using MIDI to learn/test ornaments, forget it. Guaranteed to mess you up, even if you're rendering it at the millisecond level. Either you have an ornament that you can execute and that makes musical sense on an actual whistle, or not.

[cavefish]

as far as ornamentation goes , as you practice and get faster , BY ACCIDENT you will come to find some good ornaments also

Whoa, before anyone goes over a cliff ...

Yes, there's plenty of room for creative variation. But learning the fundamentals of good trad ornamentation (articulation) is not a matter of making stuff up or stumbling into it by accident. There's a basic, fairly well-defined vocabulary of figures that needs to be mastered, including finger movements and careful timing. After which careful listening to good trad players, or a good teacher or mentor, is the path to understanding the possibilities of variation and combination and how to incorporate those into your own playing.

i use barfly to write my "ornamental" thoughts down and then i can hear what they sound like fast

If this means using MIDI to learn/test ornaments, forget it. Guaranteed to mess you up, even if you're rendering it at the millisecond level. Either you have an ornament that you can execute and that makes musical sense on an actual whistle, or not.

Grain of salt please - instead of chopping up my helpful ideas---------present some of you OWN helpful hints

all i was saying was there was many a times when i messed up while playing and FOUND a good combination-- -----there are no rules to whistling------ each tune has been written and each player plays it differently with his personal ornaments--thats part of the fun-I dont play like you , nor you like the other guy -but you Just might like the others take on something----and use it -friendly plagiarism ---- when i was younger and really into the whistle I would try to follow Vinnie Kilduf---that guy had Great ornamentation-and your not going to find that in any book---Hato is another master at ornamentation, Mary bergin, brian Finnigan, Etc---Its an independent personal application of a Tune----it starts with a hard written Trad format but EXPANDS into a pleasing expression of SELF---fueled by grips,rolls, crans, taps,strikes,cuts, triplets doubles,slurs,tonguing,-you pick what you want and EXPERIENCE and practice show you where the placements best work- not to mention a good ear

bagpiping has RULES and thats how contests are won-----------i was learning bagpipes years ago from Eric Reigler and rules are enforced with that playing ----------whistling is freelance-------- as far as using a MIDI to test, i see nothing wrong with that -------all it does is give you a Vision of something-------- my PLAYING is where i get the idea to put down on ABC-----------its just another learning tool-------------I think playing by ear is Great too --------- you might like note reading----------why narrow ways down that can possibly expand ones playing ability

[Mockingbird]

So, then, how did everyone else learn to incorporate ornamentation? By copying other players' ornamentation at first?

I.e., Mockingbird.

[Denny]

some of the Irish traditional techniques predate modern electronics.....

just a few, mind

[cavefish]

So, then, how did everyone else learn to incorporate ornamentation? By copying other players' ornamentation at first?

I.e., Mockingbird.

we learn from others, self teaching and practice , then our own personal abilities come alive -thats WHY this forum was made---------to OPEN UP the world or Irish/celtic music------to those who did not have the wonderful Advantage/benefits of the Music that culture and ancestral heritage brought to this world -this is Just ONE area of beautiful music--

the America,s brought , country, blues, and NATIVE Indian music----------which i so dearly love --------- as a matter of fact i made some Fine NAF FLUTES-------China ,Japan great music----and so on-------- we now have the technology to LEARN more,faster and better than ever in any area-due to technology--at least this "side" -of technology-------------

[cavefish]

some of the Irish traditional techniques predate modern electronics.....

just a few, mind

i would think they ALL do----------some of these tunes and ornamentation are hundreds of years old ---but now we have CDs, and vision helpers to help us along-most people learned this Type of music from their Culture or family members----those less fortunate NOW have more sources---------------this forum being one of them

[Denny]

its always good to be sumthin' innit

[Mockingbird]

a-HA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDQ5v2g2 ... ure=digest

[Infernaltootler]

Good news on starting to play. It's always annoying when people say to me, "I wish I could do such and such," of course you can if you try, then keep trying if you aren't perfect first time.

But don't fret about ornmentation, you can add it in at any time. Different players use different amounts.

I ignored ornmentation for a while thinking it would just come. It didn't, so I did some pretty intense practising and now it 'just comes'. So a bit of both is probably the way forward.

Getting tunes down with a steady beat that people can tap along to is the absolute key to success I reckon. I still struggle with this after three years but I'm getting there.

[MTGuru]

Mockingbird, your good humor through this thread is admirable.

So, then, how did everyone else learn to incorporate ornamentation? By copying other players' ornamentation at first?

Yes, definitely. It's traditional music. And ideally, tradition involves learning from other tradition bearers - by example, by observation, imitation, personal instruction (or books, videos, etc. as an indirect substitute). You start with the basic, shared techniques that give the music its distinctive flavor. The grammar and vocabulary, as it were. Then when it comes time to express yourself, you have the tools and models you need to speak the musical language of ITM.

From your first post above, it sounds like you're on the right track.

[Mockingbird]

I'll be imitating away, then! Thank you! (I'm enjoying the clips in your sig line--thank you for sharing! They are beautifully played!)

[MTGuru]

By the way ... A tree across from my house has been home to a mockingbird for years now, and it's back every spring (just turned up again a few days ago). I've thought of whistling tunes for it ... But since it's active mostly around 2-3 AM ... I think my neighbors' comments about my playing wouldn't be as kind as yours.