Exploring the Negative Generation Urban Legend

[MTGuru]

Her son has hardly even begun to play the whistle - which was at the heart of the thread.

Well I'm not picking on ducky's duckling either. But rather the casual invocation of "iffy Generation" once again in this thread in particular, where it's exactly the use of that sort of terminology which is at issue.

Besides, I can distinctly remember you furthering this "vampire" legend many times yourself in the past

Cite specific examples, and I'll be happy to address them. My view of this perpetually toxic Generation issue is fairly nuanced, not simply black and white, possibly subject to misinterpretation, and as I already said above, not always easy to communicate here.

Second, I've already stated that my perspective on this has evolved somewhat over years along with improvement in my playing and, mostly, exposure to a greater variety of whistles and makers. If there's something truly boneheaded I've said here in the past that requires some grand dramatic gesture of renunciation like Prospero breaking his staff, I'll think about it.

That said, the essential details of my rant are things I've certainly said here before, nothing new.

[MTGuru]

Mail it to MTGuru. I'll pay the postage. The outcome can't possibly be bad. If MTGuru unpacks it and plays it beautifully, that's a great outcome. If he finds it unbearable, that's a great outcome.

Oh thanks a bunch, Dale. That's all I need, piles of Generations arriving at my doorstep for the new Chiff & Fipple Generation testing service.

But if you're really serious, I'll do it. Really.

[Dale]

Mail it to MTGuru. I'll pay the postage. The outcome can't possibly be bad. If MTGuru unpacks it and plays it beautifully, that's a great outcome. If he finds it unbearable, that's a great outcome.

Oh thanks a bunch, Dale. That's all I need, piles of Generations arriving at my doorstep for the new Chiff & Fipple Generation testing service.

But if you're really serious, I'll do it. Really.

Oh heck yeah.

[NicoMoreno]

The problem with that particular whistle is that it has been modified... so it may very well be bad now, and it might have been good before. No real way to tell.

I'm also open to people sending me their bad (unmodified) generations. With any luck I'll get a nice old one that is perfect for me. To go back to those two excellent Gens, I've no doubt they are not playable by everyone. They're very delicate.

[MTGuru]

I've got a bad Generation, what can I say. It's an Eb. I managed to take it from completely unplayable (squeaks and squawks, bad in the first octave, unbearable in the second) to playable but harsh with some sandpaper. It lives on a shelf and doesn't get played, although in the interests of fairness I've just got it out now and given it a go. It's still bad.

I also have a ... very old G that is pretty good and surprisingly mellow for such a high pitched whistle.

Well, it's perfectly possible you have an Eb stinker. No way to know unless you ... *ahem* ... take Dale up on his offer. But it's possible your expectations are a mismatch to the whistle. Your mention "mellow". It's not a word I associate with Gens, or necessarily want to associate with them. I like my Generations bright and chirpy.

One thing you might try if you also have a Gen D lying around is to swap heads with the Eb, since they're exactly the same head (1/2 inch inside diameter). Sometimes a particular head will perform better at the higher or lower pitch. My Gen Eb underwent a head exchange with a D, and both the Eb and the D are a bit nicer for it. No harm trying.

[MTGuru]

The problem with that particular whistle is that it has been modified... so it may very well be bad now, and it might have been good before. No real way to tell.

One of the possible corollaries of the "bad Gen" meme is the impulse to want to "tweak the squeak" out of them.

My parents once gave my aunt and uncle a beautiful pair of antique bronze bookends with a rich, dark patina. And their first thought was, "Oh these look so dark and dingy. I'll bet we can polish them up nicely." So they took a can of Comet cleanser to them, and in a few hours they had bookends that shone like a newly minted penny. Of course, when my parents saw what they'd done they nearly had heart attacks.

Gen home tweaking sometimes strikes me like this. The "squeaky" part of the Gen sound that people want to get rid of can be part of what makes a nice Gen. In the right hands, it's a feature not a bug.

I remember a new player here on the Chiff a while back who just acquired a couple of vintage pre-80s plastic top Gens, apparently untouched, and who proposed taking sandpaper to them. I think I succeeded in talking him out of it, and I hope he's enjoying his chirpy Gens now.

[mickey66]

I only came across the concept when I bought an iffy generation for my son (as detailed in another current thread).

The vampire rises.

Is it the whistle that is iffy, or is it your son? Seriously. And no disrespect intended.

First, I love your rant and I love this thread..... "The vampire rises" Yes, and feeds blood to the whistle market. The key word seems to be sucks no matter if it's the player or the whistle....I must say I've been a victim in all this hype as well but a-lot of good came out of it for me.... I met Jerry freeman on this forum and I love his tweaked gens...all of them. After reading this thread I will give the stock gens another try I mean, must be a reason why so many pros play them. I don't like bashing but I do have some history with these whistles but I will give them another try. Thanks again for the rant!


www.tuxedomusic.com

[Wiz]

I purchased six brass Gens recently, one in each key. All had crooked mouthpieces, some by as much as about 30 degrees out! That makes for very uncomfortable playing. Yes, I have fixed them, and yes, they all had flashing which needed removing, and yes, they all now play. Should I have been a quality control inspector at the factory, all would have been rejects, in my opinion. But then, this is Oz, perhaps we get the shonky ones.....

[MTGuru]

I purchased six brass Gens recently, one in each key. All had crooked mouthpieces, some by as much as about 30 degrees out!

Interesting. By "30 degrees out" do you mean the entire head was bent to the side, or something like that? What was the source of the whistles - a supplier in Oz I guess, a brick-and-mortar shop, or internet? Could they have been heat-damaged after leaving the factory? And where was the flashing? Curious minds ...

[Mr.Gumby]

I purchased six brass Gens recently, one in each key. All had crooked mouthpieces, some by as much as about 30 degrees out! [...] Should I have been a quality control inspector at the factory, all would have been rejects, in my opinion.

You would have thrown out this one so:




and yet it was used in the making of one of the finest whistle recordings of the past decade. Because it's a lovely sounding and playing whistle. Funny how that works isn't it?

Donncha O Briain also played a notoriously mangled looking one.

[pancelticpiper]

I have played/tried maybe a few dozen Generations in my life. Granted, that's not a huge sample.

Yes that's not a huge sample. I would guess that I've played/tried several hundred Generations over the last 35 years.

As I've posted in the past, at a festival a few years ago I was teaching whistle and for the beginning whistle class the festival people ordered a box of two dozen Generation Ds. It was illuminating to try 24 brand new Generation Ds right out of the box. Of the 24, one whistle was superb. A clear, sweet, easy high octave and a full round solid low octave. Great "action" and good tuning between the octaves. It's Generations like this that I prefer over any other high whistles (save for a really good Feadog Mark One).

Anyhow I bought that superb one (the "greatest Generation"). A second Generation in that box of 24 was nearly as good.

Descending from those great whistles, the majority of the box were mediocre.

A few were just plain bad, with rough wheezy or screechy upper octaves and low notes which would barely sound.

As I've posted in the past, if Generation had wanted to maintain a reputation as a world-class professional whistle maker, they would have shipped the two best whistles of that 24 whistle batch and melted down the rest. If they had wanted to maintain a repuation as a good whistle maker they would have melted down the half-dozen worst whistles of that two dozen.

But Generation shipped them all, the great and the horrible, and as a result they get a certain reputation.

The ratio of great Generations to bad ones that that one instance provided has held true more or less over the years. Whenever I'm anywhere that has Generations for sale, where they let me try them, I do. One great whistle in 24 is actually a bit better ratio that my random sampling has provided. I would guess it's usually closer to one great Generation in 50, or 100. I've tried groups of Generations where none were playable. I've tried groups where all were decent. A student once walked into a random music shop and bought the first Generation D they had and it was great.

[Pipe Bender]

I am beginning to wonder, and I think that this was probably implied earlier by a member but to reiterate, that maybe the ratios of great, mediocre, and bad are generally the same for most all inexpensive whistles brands (Generation, Waltons, Feadog, Clarke, etc.); but if Generations are one of the most popular brands, then we would naturally hear about them more.

[henryz]

IMO, the key phrase/concept, here, is "in the proper hands..."

[benhall.1]

I am beginning to wonder, and I think that this was probably implied earlier by a member but to reiterate, that maybe the ratios of great, mediocre, and bad are generally the same for most all inexpensive whistles brands (Generation, Waltons, Feadog, Clarke, etc.); but if Generations are one of the most popular brands, then we would naturally hear about them more.

Interesting. Now, this is just from my own experience but, amongst the cheap brands, the only great whistles I've come across have been Gens. Feadogs, Waltons etc are normally fine. But not great. And, just for me, I'm not a fan of Clarkes, in any of their incarnations. But that really is just me. Some people like 'em.

[osage59]

I may well be the least experienced one posting, and my whistle (an Oak) was pretty inexpensive. All I can tell you is that the more I practice the better my whistle sounds.
I'm sure that I will someday want to upgrade from my humble Oak, but for now I'd be better off focusing on how to master "Scarborough Fair."