Why are Irish sessions so fraught?

[Rob Sharer]

Public does not equal free-for-all.

Balancing the needs of players of differing skill levels can be challenging, but never more so than when someone is acting entitled to be there. It's a privilege to be able to go down to the pub and have a few tunes, and should be treated as such.


Rob

[NicoMoreno]

Yes, just because something is public and open doesn't mean that anybody or anything is welcome. I wouldn't want someone to come in and sing Danny Boy or something like that, especially if they needed an iPod to look up the words while they sing. Likewise I wouldn't go to a slow or beginner session and play super fast and less common tunes all night. That'd be just as unwelcome!

[crookedtune]

Absolutely. And it is a difficult balance.

I wouldn't presume to break out an instrument in the advanced session Rob attends any more than he would choose to dazzle and disrupt my beginner/intermediate one. We accept that all players are equal, but some are more equal than others. It gives the committed something to strive for.

The challenge comes in keeping it structured and "traditional" without becoming standoffish. In my session, we politely allow weekly sung renditions of "All For Me Grog", "Black Velvet Band" and "The Irish Rover" by a couple of well-loved codgers. The occasional visitor may even croon "When Irish Eyes Are Smiling" and be disappointed when they can't get the whole place to join in. Often, there are more songs than tunes, and not much of it "in the tradition". I sometimes leave frustrated and vow not to return. Other nights it's fun and inspiring. It's never perfect, though, and as many leave disgruntled as satisfied.

It's only natural that sessions split according to skill levels and tolerance levels, but I'm still a believer in pulling people in, rather than scaring them off.

[NicoMoreno]

We accept that all players are equal, but some are more equal than others.

I don't accept that. All players are not equal. Most people don't like that fact, though.

The other part of it is that people that have worked hard and put in the hours and determination and practice to be good at irish traditional folk music don't like it when someone comes in and thinks that just because they can read a song off their iPod, or just learned the kesh jig on a non-tunable clarke whistle, they can just sit down and join in, or worse, show off! The loud, bad, and often read! singing and accompaniment bashing cheapens the effort and love that a good musician has put into their craft, their art. It's why a lot of musicians don't have a lot of tolerance for people that they perceive as not being all that serious about it. It's why some (although thankfully in my experience very few) musicians are not tolerant of any musician less than their own standard. Luckily, as Mr. Gumby pointed out, most good musicians, once they see you're making a serious effort at it, give you loads of help. And most sessions give loads of encouragement to serious learners. Generally a serious learner is not the sort of person who shows up and expects to play every set.

[Rob Sharer]

I wouldn't presume to break out an instrument in the advanced session Rob attends any more than he would choose to dazzle and disrupt my beginner/intermediate one.

Oo, look out, there, mate! Here I come!

You sure could shtick yer head in the door some Sunday, if you like. We're not up to anything too Byzantine. First round is on me! Cheers,

Rob

[crookedtune]

Hmmm, maybe I'll do that. How many lyric sheets for 'Who Threw the Overalls?' should I run off?

But if you're slumming this weekend, the cream of our crop will be playing at the Hillsborough Street Festival on Saturday at 4:30. Corner of Hillsborough & Enterprise, near the bell tower. It's an easy tomato-throw from curb-side.

[Rob Sharer]

How many lyric sheets for 'Who Threw the Overalls?' should I run off?

My policy is to run off every one I see. Get the harquebus, Bridie!



Rob

[crookedtune]

Aye, the pendulum swings both ways, donut.

[Rob Sharer]

Don't believe everything you read!


R

[fleadhcheoil]

That's a bit blunt, FC, but yeah, you're right. Trouble is, some yanks don't handle directness like that very well. They have a tendency to shoot the messenger instead of reflecting on the proffered wisdom, even when it's not meant to be insulting

YOU HAVE TO GET THE MESSAGE ACROSS , we all have to learn to play, you never learn if you attend sessions dominated by beginners who play "The Maid Behind the Bar" in the key of C, I always polish up the tunes add ornamentation, etc , if you happen to be in a session with the likes of Bobby Gardner, Vincent Tighe you are playing with the best, I often play join with beginners so they can learn --- so I play the tunes that they know,

At a fleadh in Listowel I was in a session that went on for 17hours that was some session, the music was out of this world,

a base drummer joined a session, he was handed a pen knife told to use it instead of the drumstick, he got the message,

'Clare FM the Kitchen Sessions,' look them up they are great,,,

[fiddlerwill]

Go t to agree with FC.Apart from the bit about Maid behind the Bar in C!! I mean, I play it in C, but only after 25yr of playing it in D! so.... I wanna speak up for Flat sessions! C sessions Rule!

[Black Rose]

You think Irish sessions are fraught?! I sat in with some cats down at the Cabooze the other night around closing time. It's a good thing I was only in the session an hour or so because they were really tense--rolling up their eyes when they didn't think I was looking and making stink-faces every time I hit a sour note. I just glared back and said, "What, you didn't like that?" because really, jazz is all about looking like you meant to do that, not so much getting the notes in the right order.

And granted, I don't know any jazz theory because I only play blues. And I brought my bass down that night, which I only learned to play a couple of months ago. Actually, I mostly play Irish and Scottish music, and that on uilleann pipes. But I really like blues and have started to pick up on the scale pretty good on bass.

Jazz is pretty cool I guess, but these guys did mostly blues too, or so they said. Then they started cheating and went off into these Coltrane riffs in weird horn keys like Bb or Eb or something and I couldn't use any open strings so it really got me lagging behind. After a while they seemed to just drift off into totally non-melodic bullsheet without telling me even what key they were in. They just made stuff up on the fly like I was just supposed to hear it and dig in somehow. One of the guys told me to "just follow the chart" and blabbled out a bunch of chord changes or something but feck that. How the hell am I supposed to know what a "diminished 7th" or some "augmented 9th" this or that 6th substitution chord is played on a bass guitar?

John Coltrane said you could play a shoestring if you were sincere. Next week I should bring a shoestring and they can just all shove it up their smug arses.

Well, they were a bunch of first-class A-holes and as much as I'd like to go back there and show them what's what, I certainly won't go sit in any so-called "jam sessions" with those guys again. They didn't even offer me a piece of dry cold toast, much less one with jam on it. You can forget about the butter!

Irish sessions are way more friendly and relaxed than that. All I have to do is set my bodhran on the chair in the middle of the session area before anyone else gets in to steal it from me, and drink free beer all night at the bar and talk to all my friends over there while the others play in the circle. Nobody ever complains about me spending the whole night out of the chair or wasting the spot in the session, in fact they seem quite happy to let me hang out at the bar instead of playing with them.

[benhall.1]

Neat

[oakuss]

There's lots in common between Irish sessions and Jazz jams. I've done jazz all my life and just started Irish a while ago. Actually I've been to only one Irish session (albeit many times); and there everybody is pretty nice. But I've been to many jazz jams and they run the gamut from hyper-competitive A-holes trying to outdo each other (meaning faster-faster-faster and more obscure tunes), to jams where they are really trying to play cooperatively to make the music special (and when it gets really special I swear it's like experiencing telepathy), to jams where they are trying to fold in everybody and bring the beginners along. I'd guess Irish sessions run the same gamut.

Just find the nice people. They're out there, in jazz as well as in Irish sessions. Some of the jazz guys are so nice that they invite you to play with them during their gigs - it's not even a session.

[oleorezinator]

I am very happy playing at the Irish session near my home I'm glad to say.
However this nugget can be applied to some itm sessions.
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/article.php?id=15614