Kevin Burke on practice

[Azalin]

My playing is on you tube, and on clips and snips. so what. where is your playing Azalin? So rather than check the facts you continue your erroneous ways. sigh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAZCuFylppA

Are you kidding me???? But anyway, nice girls in there, was worth watching... but where's the amazing fiddling? The jigs, the reels??

[TaoCat]

Yes, I am incredible. Thanks for noticing! As about me, when I start offering all sorts of musical advice, stating "trad for 70 years, fiddle since 500 bce" I will back my words with playing. As it stands, you'll notice I mostly comment on people's behavior, which I am qualified to do. I am a mediocre player, but I enjoy it immensely. I also enjoy coming to traditional music forums on occasion for advice, humor and to simply see what's going on.

It becomes somewhat annoying when on at least two of these traditional music sites, the same person keeps saying rather incredible things, and then becomes belligerent when anybody questions their assertions. You've achieved one notable thing, that is getting such a diverse and large number of people utterly tired of your bellicose rants and name-dropping.

And are you certain you didn't do a little Fermoy Lasses in a Hawaiian shirt?

Edit-
Well, I just looked over your youtube video. That's me all sorted out about your trad credentials. How could I ever have doubted you?

[fiddlerwill]

No thats not what you did, you came here, made unsubstantiated false accusations when asked to support them you couldnt, because they are bullsh*t. In fact its funny that almost all your posts here have focused on me Seems like you just came here to stir sh*t actually. Now your a mediocre player, fine no shame in that. You can substantiate any of the facts I mention here with a couple of emails but rather than do so you choose to continue your nonsense. I simply state the facts . You can choose to believe them or not ICGAF yes Ive played trad since I was a teenager, yes Ive been playing music since this photo was took and im no spring chicken now.
Your accusations and slander are untrue and you have managed to bring this little thread down to your level. now if youve finished your little games we might just get back to a discussion of the music and Kevin Burke. To you its name dropping to me its friends and some of the guys I play with. get over it.

[Azalin]

Hey Will, where's your clip of fiddle playing? I'm still waiting for it.

[TaoCat]

Fiddlerwill, the video you posted...are you sure you meant to do that? Just askin'. Anyway, what unsubstantiated claims have I made? About poisoning the conversations you participate in? Or your use of sock puppets? These are both verifiable. And you were little_chup. Nobody doubts that for a moment.

As to the famous people you play with, why don't they jump in and defend you? Where's good ol' fiddlerwill, Ionnas, little_chup, jig, tradpiper up there playing with these luminaries of Irish music? Where's this youtube of you and...whoever? I mean, the one you posted, I really liked the belly-dancers, never had them at our little session before, new one on me. Just my mediocrity shining through, I guess.

And finally, for the record, you categorically deny that you played the Fermoy Lasses on guitar on a youtube video? My memory must be slipping.

[fiddlerwill]

Me?! in a hawain shirt? duh! no never. and you are obviously too full of your own conceit and ignorance to check your facts, relying , still, on the fantasies youve created about me. jeez get a life. In case you hadnt realised it the unpleasantness and vitreol of people like you , the stupid arguments of mediocre players is what puts guys like Kevin off forums like this. How do I know? he told me. Do you believe that? probably not, do I care? no. you can continue to live in your little world of ignorance . I specifically invited Kevin in to a discussion on session.org, about scales or metronomes. but he was amazed and thought a good dose of common sense was needed. these things are usefull tools we both recomend s, known and recommended throughout the wide world of music.

>> Nobody doubts that for a moment. << apart from Jeremy , now what would he know!? Check your facts before you direct unsubstantiated false accusations and the facts are simple. I had nothing to do with little chup. I know it, Jeremy knows it . now please refrain from continuing your petty misinformed tirade on a thread that, despite being politely requested not to highjack,you still derailed.
It appears its not just your memory thats slipping.

[david_h]

So, how do we think someone as experienced as Kevin Burke uses a metronome ? I doubt its because he sometimes has trouble getting the main notes the 'speak' when he wants them too (my main use for flute) or that his tempo is erratic. He could have mentioned it in a workshop becuase he felt some people could benefit from using it to tidy up fairly 'basic' elements of their playing. But how does he use it ?

Any ideas ?

[Mr.Gumby]

As a newcomer, to this thread mind you, not to a lot of other things, it seems to me the discussion at hand is the archetypal internet forum thread. A lot of noise without much to back it up. What do the say again, udaras gan eolas.

It makes my brain hurt.

[highland-piper]

So, how do we think someone as experienced as Kevin Burke uses a metronome ? I doubt its because he sometimes has trouble getting the main notes the 'speak' when he wants them too (my main use for flute) or that his tempo is erratic. He could have mentioned it in a workshop because he felt some people could benefit from using it to tidy up fairly 'basic' elements of their playing. But how does he use it ?

Any ideas ?

Did you not read the interview that Will posted a link to?

Q. You told us the other day that the metronome was, “an instrument of torture but it is fantastic.”

Oh yes, you have got to learn to play with a metronome. Even if you don't do it for life, just that experience helps. You think you are playing on the money and unless you are practicing with a metronome you are probably not. It really is embarrassing.

emphasis added.

So yes, you are correct that Kevin Burke has a really great sense of rhythm, and no you know why, in his own words.

[SteveShaw]

Well, he is saying "learn to play." He isn't saying "to get Irish music under your belt you need a metronome." I am not able to quote my source for this, so maybe I shouldn't say it, but I have it on good authority that he doesn't give a fig for metronomes these days.

[david_h]

The usual objection to playing with a metronome is that it will make the music sound 'mechanical' or 'like a MIDI file'.

As a beginner I would rather sound mechanical than erratic, and when practicing playing dance tunes if I try to get the attack of my note exactly on the tick of the metronome it discourages me from fudging over the fluffy notes using the excuse of musical expression. That is the sort of practice that might lead to sounding mechanical.

Kevin Burke does not sound mechanical. The interview seems to indicate that he still has use of a metronome. So the are the 'experts' who say that using a metronome leads to mechanical playing wrong ?

This is dance music so is there always a notional regular tick, tick, tick of a beat, maybe with tiny tempo changes that work OK with the dance ? Good players can indicate that beat whilst adding interest my moving things around slightly in time in a way that MIDI player doesn't.

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the best players found it useful at times to have that tick, tick, tick explicitly there during practice. Maybe, for an experienced player, it could stand in place of reliable rhythm players in a band. But that is not why most of us have a metronome recommended to us.

[david_h]

Crossed with Steve - he didn't sound mechanical at the time of the interview either.

[Azalin]

But honnestly guys, why does it matter? There are professonial players who live from the music and where many aspects of their playing are very important not only for their own enjoyment of the music, but for their 'job'. I know a fiddler who uses a metronome sometimes because he plays for step dancers, and he has to be darn accurate. To screw up when you play for dancers can be a disaster, to screw up when you play with your friends is simply annoying... to screw up when recording a CD can be some sort of disaster, or not.

I don't use, and never used a metronome, but I try to play along session recordings and CDs sometimes. It's not as accurate, but still is a fundation for your rhythm... of course, if I wanted to be a professional player, I'd get in serious rhythm training, which might involve a metronome.

As some people said, different learning techniques work for different people. We can't really debate a technique as it could work for someone else. But to "quote" a professional musician to prove a "point" is senseless in my opinion, I could "quote" many other musicians who'd tell you metronomes are not required at all, etc.

PS: Sounding mechanical has nothing to do with having a perfect tempo in my opinion, you can have bad rhythm and sound mecanical. It's the phrasing, not the rhythm.

[Azalin]

... and I'm still waiting for Will's clip of his fiddle playing, since I posted mine.

[fiddlerwill]

<<I could "quote" many other musicians who'd tell you metronomes are not required at all, etc.>>

Go ahead, Im waiting.

You posted a clip of you playing the fiddle Azalin ? where?
Dont change the goal posts , insult, accuse and expect to be taken seriously.
In case you hadnt realised, this is a thread about Kevin Burkes recommendations!

David
I have yet to hear any expert who say that using a metronome leads to mechanical playing can you quote one for us ?
It is important IMO to at least try to follow the advice of respected masters such as Kevin. How does a beginner of 4 or 5 years know whether this advice would help if they haven't tried it?