To thumbhole or not to thumbhole - that is the question!

[Peter Duggan]

Maybe somebody makes a whistle with a G# thumbhole as well as a Cnat one?

Or more likely F natural?

[JackCampin]

I've seen a DIY G# hole added to a Generation, so that was what came to mind. My right thumb falls naturally closer to the G# position than the Fnat one.

The answer is probably to get a spare toe grafted on the side of your right thumb so you have a bifurcated appendage that can cover two right thumbholes. Nobody really needs ten toes.

[Lulu]

Or more likely F natural for right hand and Bb for left hand thumb.
If it's possible to make whistle with D(Eb) and G(G#) split holes like in recorder we would have fully chromatic (but keyless!) whistle
I must talk over this idea whith amicable maker of mine.

[R Small]

I've often wondered about the feasibility of split holes myself. I try to get the full chromatic scale on my whistles using cross-fingerings and half-holing. It works fairly well. Split holes might work better. Lulu--let us know what your maker friend says.

[DavieD]

I find myself playing 10-hole ocarinas more and more these days, and they have two thumbholes. Maybe somebody makes a whistle with a G# thumbhole as well as a Cnat one?

As far as I know, Colin Goldie makes whistles with two thumbholes, but the second is for the Fnat.

[Peter Duggan]

Nobody really needs ten toes.

As I'm well aware (having always wondered whether I've got seven or eight, though I could yet be persuaded that it's technically ten)!

Or more likely F natural for right hand and Bb for left hand thumb.

Can't see Bb for left thumb feeling right when you'd expect the hole to end up between L2 and L3...

As far as I know, Colin Goldie makes whistles with two thumbholes, but the second is for the Fnat.

Aye, that's what I was thinking of (wondering whether that's the kind of thing he's built for Fraser Fifield?).

[dunnp]

A bit of info on Goldie many holed whistles in this old thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5746&start=30

[Lulu]

R Small - one my maker friend said. "It might be impossible because of (small) diameter and distance between split holes and volume/tone of "split hole notes" might be too week" I don't want trust him in this issue
Let's see what will say second maker...

[StevieJ]

I have one of Colin's "modal" D whistles, one of the first few he made. It doesn't have a thumbhole for the C-nat, but it has 7 holes on top of the instrument, so you can get C natural (in both octaves) by stopping the last holed with your bottom-hand little finger. And it has an F-natural thumbhole on the back.

I experimented seriously with it for a while. The possibilities were very intriguing - C natural had a nice strong tone, I could do rolls on F natural, crans on C natural if I remember correctly, and certain difficult passages or tunes became feasible or easier. But I didn't stick with it. The thumbhole wasn't in a natural position (hehe) and I ended up taping over it.

Regarding the weak sound of C natural on a standard whistle, the need to cross-finger in various ways depending on the whistle, and the fact that what rolls you can do on that note are a trifle unconvincing... well, yes, that's a limitation of the instrument. Or a feature of it, the nature of the beast, depending on your point of view. Working with an instrument's limitations is OK with me.

If you don't, what do you ultimately end up with? A Boehm-system flute, that's what. (Which is fine, of course, if you have to play in an orchestra, jazz combo, or wind band - before all the Boehm-system players start beating me to a pulp.)

PS Here is a review of the modal whistle - from 11 years ago, oh dear Lord. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=664&start=0

[hans]

Well, the instrument's limitations from its humble origin as a tin whistle have been changed massively as technological progress allowed. Adding a thumb hole may be against the purist's taste of what a "traditional whistle" should be, but it is hardly a fatal step on the slippery slope of becoming a Böhm-system instrument. So it may as well just end there: a seven hole instrument rather than a six hole one.

In the end what matters is personal taste and choice, but hardly dictates of tradition. That's what I hope .

I remember Chris Norman trying to persuade a class of wooden flute players, that it would be useful and good to start practicing using the Cnat key, for those who had them on their fine instruments, and many had but didn't use them. He only taught tunes in C on that weekend workshop, to make the point!

[StevieJ]

... fatal step on the slippery slope of becoming a Böhm-system instrument.

Steve: Just a minute. You said, "Böhm"!

Hans: Nö I didn't. I sink you'll find I said, "Böhm"...

[hans]

I'm just traditional

'Nö' is a good one: totally my home dialect (Hamburg)!

[StevieJ]

Hamburg? That's felicitous. I was thinking more of Paris!

http://youtu.be/ulGoXGwsL1Y

Not to mention

http://youtu.be/7jLSLQBOwX4

[Loren]

PS Here is a review of the modal whistle - from 11 years ago, oh dear Lord. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=664&start=0

Sweet Jeebus!!! Where oh where does the time go?!?!?

[DavieD]

If you don't, what do you ultimately end up with? A Boehm-system flute, that's what. (Which is fine, of course, if you have to play in an orchestra, jazz combo, or wind band - before all the Boehm-system players start beating me to a pulp.)

I have a thumbhole in most of my whistles, let's face my future:



http://www.obrienwhistles.com/OBPWwhisolo.html

("Jo", it seems to be Hans future as well )

It's a question of WhOA, that I would like to try one of David's whistles, but until now I never thought of the whisolo

Cheers, David