Goldie / Overton clogging problem (and solution)

[Sirchronique]

Just want to chime in to add myself to the list of people who had problems with their goldies. I sold them, thinking that the problem was me, and not the whistle, due to the fact that so many people do not have problems with them. The high C and Bb never clogged. The low ones did clog, however.

I'd warm them, use dishsoap, etc. No matter how warm they were, they'd clog. A good warming and dish-soap did prolong the amount of time before they'd clog, but it did not eliminate it, and before the end of a tune, they'd still clog. I kept them very very clean, and always would wash out my mouth and then wait some minutes before playing. They especially did it as soon as I'd start going into the higher octave, which is the opposite of what I'd expect. I figured force would prevent the condensation from building up. Hence the whistles clogging once I get into the B part of most tunes.

I'm interested to hear how the toothpaste trick has worked for any more people here. If there is a real solution to the problem, I might give the goldies another try, as they are fantastic whistles, if it were not for this issue, but I just can't deal with a whistle clogging before I can get through a tune. I am glad to know the issue wasn't just me, and that other people have the problem, too. While I do love the sound of my current low D's, I'd really like to have a goldie in the "arsenal" , and be able to get it to last at least through a tune, so I can use it.

[Mikethebook]

Just to add a little more to the mix, Goldie's are obviously not all the same, varying particularly with regard to backpressure, Colin labelling them, soft, medium and hard blowers. It would be interesting to see whether clogging problems were mainly confined to the softer or harder blowers. While the height of the windway is reduced in the harder blowers, the pressure of breath required is that much higher which might help keep the windway clear. That's just a theory.

My own Goldies are soft blowers, but, like all Goldies, made to be played aggressively. Those of you who have heard Colin play will know that he is an aggressive player and the whistles are tuned accordingly. My nontunable low D when I play it is a tad flat though in tune with itself but I play far from aggressively (as do some pros I gather - Colin sees them playing their Goldies with the slide tuned sharper than concert pitch) and therefore am more prone to clogging. Being a relative beginner also doesn't help so I see myself as a high risk player!! But the toothpast treatment does appear to have solved the problem for me . . . though I sense perhaps the need for a six months service before too long. But I can live with a twice a year toothpaste treatment.

Interesting what bogman says about different styles of playing. A lot of Irish players play Goldies, many of them pipers too. Colin told me that most of his uillean piper players go for soft blowers . . . not that that has any bearing on the present issue!!

[MTGuru]

OK, it's report time. I tried the toothpaste.

It worked.

For the first time ever I'm able to play the Low D through an entire tune without having to stop to clear it because of gurgling. And the High D no longer feels like it's always on the verge of behaving similarly. The clogging is completely gone. The little droplets within the windway and around the windway exit have vanished. After playing, both areas now look clear and dry.

As a side benefit, the tone seems improved, and the cosmic drainpipe more cosmic. Probably again because moisture build-up has been suppressed.

Needless to say, I'm very pleased. Quite apparently, this is THE SOLUTION to the notorious and much-reported clogging. And note that I changed absolutely nothing about my playing technique, breath or embouchure. It was a physical problem with the whistle. But easily curable.

I'll describe what I did and post some other thoughts below. But I wanted to get this out there first.

[Sirchronique]

That's great! Congrats, MTGuru!

I'd say this thread was very long overdue!

If this works for other people too, I am going to acquire a Goldie low D and give them another go!

[Cayden]

Add me to the list of those having recently used this method to seemingly eliminate clogging related issues in my Kerry Pro low F. After reading Mikethebook's post, I treated my Kerry with Pepsodent toothpaste primarily because that was what I had on hand. In doing so, I noted the Pepsodent had a relatively low viscosity / creamy consistency. The lower viscosity seems to have aided in a full and even distribution of the material on and within the metal windway. There seemed to be no highly abrasive / gritty property associated with this brand.

After treating my Kerry Pro as described, I was able to play without any noted clogging issues during a two hour home session of playing tune after tune. The windway configuration of my Kerry Pro low F is straight with a narrow / low height, and of course is all metal, the most typical associated with clogging issues.

Seemingly, the distribution of surfacants within the toothpaste is a real solution for this problem which has plagued so many players of these otherwise incredible low whistles.

I have a Goldie / Overton Low G that will receive the same treatment this week, with an extended period of play to follow. I am quite confident that I will experience the same effect on that whistle (which has always resulted in clogging much sooner than the Kerry).

Thank you to Colin Goldie and Mikethebook for sharing this game changing tip for players of all metal low whistles. Great thread!

Cheers
Cayden

[Ketil]

MTGuru, please give a detailed report of your treatment! I have the same problem with my big O and untill I read this thread thought I did something wrong as a relative beginner..

Ketil

[Mikethebook]

Delighted to hear these positive reports. I'm sure the toothpaste manufacturers will be too ! As regards how to do it, I did cover this early on in the thread but maybe MT can do a more thorough job of explaining. But it is basically a case of getting the paste into the windway with some kind of spatula and using a very thin and damp wooden blade like a filed-down lollipop stick to polish the inside of the windway with the paste already inside. Then using a cotton bud with paste on it thoroughly polish the bevel and the block wall below it to ensure easy drainage of condensation. Then run water (I use cold) through the whistle to remove any excess paste left behind. Those were Colin's instructions to the letter. Voila! A clog-free Goldie. Over to you MT.

By the way, MT . . .

the tone seems improved, and the cosmic drainpipe more cosmic

I've never understood the phrase "cosmic drain pipe." What part of the sound is it . . . or maybe there's no other way of explaining it?

[Mikethebook]

Cayden, I will be curious to hear how you get on with the Goldie low G since the windway must be shallower than on the low D so I wonder how easily you will be able to run a stick though it. Good luck!

[narrowdog]

Just a quick update from me,
We had our monthly English session yesterday
I was playing both high and low D Goldies with their new fluoride fresh windways
and had no clogging problems at all despite it being a very cold
room for the afternoon.
Thanks mikethebook for the tip

[MTGuru]

Over to you MT.

Righto, Mike. Lovely weather today, innit?

Yes, I did just what Mike described, but here are the details.

Toothpaste: Aquafresh, which I have on hand. It's a pasty toothpaste with gel stripes running through it and seemed to work fine.

Stick: I cut two strips from a stiff glossy paper card, about 0.55 mm thick, which fit fine into the windways with some wiggle room. My (expired) plastic credit cards are 0.75 mm and too snug, since the height of both the high and low D windways is 0.80 mm according to my feeler gauges. The card stock remained stiff long enough to do the job but seemed gentle enough not to do any accidental damage. Each strip was ~1 mm narrower than each windway, and long enough to extend entirely through its length.

First I removed each whistle head joint and rinsed it thoroughly under the tap in warm water, leaving it damp.

I packed some toothpaste into the end with the strip, then spent maybe 3 minutes working it around, making sure to apply polishing pressure to the top, bottom and sides of the windway. About halfway through I switched to working from the windway exit side. I gave up when the toothpaste began drying out and the strip became too floppy.

Then I applied toothpaste to several Q-tips (cotton buds) and thoroughly polished the bevel, block, labium, and the window walls - basically everything visible and accessible through the window. This took another couple of minutes.

Finally, I rinsed the window and windway under warm tapwater, then blew mouthfuls of warm water through the windway until it looked completely clear.

That's it. I'd note that both the strip and Q-tips turned quite black by the time I was done. Indicating, I presume, that significant oxidation was removed and polished away.

I'll give my theory of why this works below. Meanwhile, Mike, back to you in the studio.

[Mikethebook]

Thanks MT. Very thorough as always. I'm not sure about the blackening on the cotton buds. I think it must be the oxide since no amount of polishing seems to reduce it. It continues to show up black on fresh buds no matter how much you do.

Is there any way, this thread could be renamed for the sake of other searching in the future? It seems to be much less about dental floss now.

[MTGuru]

Is there any way, this thread could be renamed for the sake of other searching in the future? It seems to be much less about dental floss now.

An excellent suggestion - done. I may also eventually make it sticky for easy reference.

I'd say this thread was very long overdue!

I agree! This is a pretty big deal. This thread alone now documents 10 players at all levels who've had the identical clogging problem with these whistles (and others of similar design). A scan of past forum posts would turn up many more. And the solution is very welcome.

[bogman]

I'm delighted to hear the toothpaste trick works. I don't want to sound negative here, I just want to help expand on your findings, but unless whistles don't clog no matter what, then this 'a' solution not 'the' solution. I'm aware you're a good player MT but would you not agree that players of a lesser level should not assume it's the whistles fault but should work on their blowing technique as well as using this method of treating the windway? Hopefully the toothpaste thing is a good tip to share and that it'll helps strugglers.

IMO it's always a good idea to let someone who plays a particular make of instrument well have a shot to see how it plays for them. Very often I've seen folk turn up with a new Overton/Goldie or MK and they have got the tuning slide way too far in and are tickling the whistle rather than blowing it out, the reduced air pressure in the windway if likely to encourage clogging.

...and dont have peanuts with your pint

[Mikethebook]

Bogman, given that MT is an experienced player who would not have expected his Goldie to clog, I think he means this is the solution from the whistle side. I don't think anyone would argue that player's blowing technique comes into it too. When first playing I was playing very wet and suffering from the "salivating when putting the fipple between the lips" syndrome. While not a dry player by any means, I think my technique has improved where I would expect less condensation from playing. It's not an "either or" situation but a "both and."

[bogman]

Mikethebook, that's pretty much what I was trying to say. The is not 'the' solution for folk who's whistle wouldn't clog with someone else playing it.