Redwolf wrote:
Has anyone ever taken this guy aside at a session and asked him to tone it down?
Redwolf
I believe so. I won't get into details about it, but I know this has been done, and not too recently. At least by one person, perhaps others as well... It didn't go very well, by what I've been told (I wasn't there, so this is all heresay...)
You're right, this would be a good oportunity for him to change his ways if indeed his ways need to be changed... (I think they do, but I'm not the expert on these matters.)
I know James, you'd welcome this guy in your ever happy loving sessions but Mike Rafferty and Mary Rafferty, among others, wouldnt agree with you on this one
I know James, you'd welcome this guy in your ever happy loving sessions but Mike Rafferty and Mary Rafferty, among others, wouldnt agree with you on this one
YAKST = Yet Another Knobs and Snobes Thread.
In the session in my old hometown, we rarely had any reason to be anything but welcoming to anyone. And the few times a problem did arise, we dealt with it in person, right then, openly and in the gentlest way possible.
We certainly did not post caustic messages about anyone on a public forum behind their back. In our society, such as action is viewed, accurately, as cowardly, small-minded, and low.
I have moved and play in a different session now, much larger, and with some very experienced musicians. But it is still a very friendly, welcoming session.
They welcomed me. Hell, I think they'd even welcome you.
Oh no, I've made it into the knobs and snobes club... I didn't mean it, I swear!! Really, I didn't...
Look, the original post was not about that guy. So let's get back to the original topic.
I want to say that I like the idea that someone presented, about a session being a social event where people are sharing stories and thoughts and philosophies. And if there was no music, it would be just as inapropriate to plop yourself down in the middle of it and start spewing your own stories without first sussing out the conversations, and gently easing yourself into the group.
I've been in sessions where I've seen new people come in, and have openly invited them to come join the session (in my quiet manner). I do that, so I'm not really a knob or snobe. And I do it because people do it to me too, and I like that feeling of being welcomed and accepted into an ITM group!
I get dirty looks sometimes from other people who wish I hadn't invited those people into the group, but I live with it. I'm not experienced enough to know what to say to people when it comes to session etiquette, but hopefully I'll learn the necessary tact, but rest assured, I will never be able to please everybody.
I'm of the mind that you have to take a session for what it is. If you like it, stay and play. If you don't like it, go find another one, but stop complaining about it - let those who like it enjoy it.
Another instant of James P, under the veil ofof positive human relations, handing out negative qualifications. Great stuff James, there's really nothing new in these threads is there.
Having just read the discussion on Irtrad I added my comment to Bloomfields's initial post to clarify the background to the discussion saying 'do you recognise him' more as a metaphore for the type than an invitation to give out about a particular person, thinking we've all seen the type/situation. But so it goes.
Let's give this another twist, rather than giving out about what goes wrong, tell us what you all expect a session to be. I don't mean this in vague terms of 'welcoming, friendly, slow and accomodating' but really how do you see a session, what do you put in, what do you hope to get out of it and what should it's function be. Once that is established it will become clear what is and what isn't appropriate at any given session.
My own take. I don't play a lot at 'sessions' not in the sense that I walk into a pub and sit down to play music with complete strangers. Admitted, the Willie week is a bit of an an exception but in general I like to play tunes with people I know, if at all possible not in a noisy pub.
Sitting down with others is a good way of socialising, pick up a few tunes, exchange ideas and air the inner demons. It's great when it works. Not so great when someone insensitive to the music steps in. But whatever it is, it's not a goal to play in sessions, it's a by-product of music making, pleasant at times but not the ultimate.
Also, the concept of a 'leader' strikes me as strange, there's a certain system of 'seniority' that falls inot place automatically but the 'leader' as I see described on this forum is as strange to me as the 'playing lists' etc. A session is a meeting of minds, not a kindergarten.
Unfortunately, in the sessions I've attended (few, admittedly), it strikes me that the most important qualification for participation is that you be breathing. Where sessions are few and far between, an additional warm body in the group is welcomed - no matter what instrument you play or how you play it. I think that changes the meaning of "session." Probably most in the U.S., I think it has come to mean more that you are a person who likes to play the tin whistle or bodhran, or box, or whatever and everybody else is so glad to find another person who likes those instruments and may (or may not) know a few of the same tunes that you'll be welcomed with open arms wherever you go. The only place you might be frowned upon is if you go to a true session where there are actually people who play and know ITM.
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we have different views of what we're calling a "session." To someone who just likes to get together with other folks who play the whistle or fiddle or box or whatever, and they don't really care what type of music is played or how well it's played (and may not know), they might grandly call it a "session," but in reality it's just a get-together of folks to play some fun tunes. To other people who really know and love ITM and are very proficient at playing whatever instrument it is they play, a session is something else entirely - thus the appearance of snobbery when a person from the first group clomps themselves down to play with the second group.
Perhaps what we need is just another word for that first kind of gathering.
susnfx wrote:
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we have different views of what we're calling a "session."
Susan
I suppose that is what I am getting at, a session is a different thing to different people and that probabbly accounts for some of the misunderstandings arising. So, give us your ideas and opinions.
Last edited by Cayden on Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
This board doesn't exist in a vacuum. The fellow you've all been talking about could well read all this someday. All thoughts of lawsuits aside, doesn't that bother you, at least a little?
peeplj wrote:We certainly did not post caustic messages about anyone on a public forum behind their back. In our society, such as action is viewed, accurately, as cowardly, small-minded, and low.
Darn, I'm now a coward, small-minded, low and snob jerk. If the list gets long enough, I might make it in the Guinness book!
I'd like to point out James that there's more to it than you know. A friend of mine was having a session a while ago here in Montreal, and when this guy started destroying the session, she told him to please be more respectful or whatever, and he basically told her that if she wouldnt have been a woman he would have kicked her ass. So much for your ever happy loving session...
James, I quoted a description widely used in the posts on the subject on irtrad. An illustration of how quick certain behaviour gains you a reputation.
Is it any worse than calling people snobs and knobs at the drop of a hat on every occasion and usually under the veil of politeness?
if you want to continue the subject take it t oanother thread or do it in private, let's stick to session behaviour here.
Last edited by Cayden on Sat Aug 07, 2004 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
peeplj wrote:All issues of morality, decency, and propriety aside, you could be opening up Dale to be sued. You should really read this:
Did you actually read it? Yahoo was sued because they didnt want to give this lawyer information about users, not because there were negative posts about him. It's not the same at all, but you'd make a good lawyer by trying to manipulate reality like that
susnfx wrote:
I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we have different views of what we're calling a "session."
Susan
I suppose that is what I am getting at, a session is a different thing to different people and that probabbly accounts for some of the misunderstandings arising. So, give us your ideas and opinions.
I don't consider that I've ever been to what you'd think of as a real session, Peter. I've been to lots of get-togethers where folks have played tunes and had a lot of fun, but I don't think that makes them sessions, even the ones held in a pub. For one thing, if they were real sessions, they wouldn't have let me play. Thus it's hard for me to describe what I think a true session would be. To me it evokes a feeling - a warmth and deep feeling, even respect, about each tune that's played. And played on instruments that are a part of the player - no stumbling and self-consciousness over their playing. I can see how a rank beginner trying to squeak their way through a tune played like this would really raise the hackles of the other players.
