(OT) Tomorrow's Earth Day and.....

[aderyn_du]

Part of the way I started eating dandelions is because we used to have birds, and we fed them dandelions, marigolds, calendulas, roses, etc., to help their color.

Hey Cranberry! What kind of birds? I had no idea that dandelions would help with color... do you give the flowers or the leaves, or both? Can I give them to my cockatiels?

~A

[Jack]

The advice I've seen for canaries says that feeding them bright orange/yellow flowers will help with their color (a big deal if you show them). Marigolds are the best, because they come in lots of different deep oranges and yellows, and basically bloom forever, and of course are edible and easy to grow.

We didn't have canaries though, we had finches and budgies. Being that canaries are just a more developed type of grassfinch, so we fed the flowers to them of the everything and the leaves of the dandelions. I can't really say it helped their color, I don't really remember one way or another. It doesn't hurt them. But I remember that's why we fed them flowers. The budgies ate them, too so I'd assume a tiel could. I want a bird now!

Marigold flowers are tangy and bitter (to people) so if you eat them it helps to just lightly sprinkle them on top of a salad or soup for color and to have the right dressing. Roses (the ones I've eaten) are more plain, but you want to stay with old fashioned heirloom varieties and nothing that requires a lot of fertilizers to keep them in top shape (ie, hybrid teas, etc).

I've rambled. Sorry.

[herbivore12]

Cran, eating a more sensible diet might just help improve a number of the other adverse conditions you appear to suffer from. If it's possible, I'd really encourage you to start eating lots of fruits and veggies and to vary your diet with different cuisines; life is more interesting and fun when it includes good food, not to mention healthier. You ought to extend your compassion for animals to include yourself, friend.

'Enders, thanks for the debate. I think militancy on either side -- the violently vegan (who weird me out) and the combative carnivores (likewise) -- is energy wasted on strife the world doesn't need. Becoming an informed eater, of whatever diet one chooses, is probably the thing to do. Finding a diet that's healthy and satisfying and that fits our lifestyle and worldview makes mealtimes -- a pretty fair chunk of our lives -- both pleasurable and meaningful, rather than a chore.

Food is good.

[Jack]

Cran, eating a more sensible diet might just help improve a number of the other adverse conditions you appear to suffer from. If it's possible, I'd really encourage you to start eating lots of fruits and veggies and to vary your diet with different cuisines; life is more interesting and fun when it includes good food, not to mention healthier. You ought to extend your compassion for animals to include yourself, friend.

I'm an animal? I've tried to eat more, period. But I have EDNOS that interferes with that. There are times when I binge and can't control it and when I do I'll eat a whole bag of oranges, a whole bag of apples, 3 jugs of soy milk, a whole bag of rice, etc. But then I find a way to purge it. Every one of my problems (and everybody's, I think) is related to the other and I'm working on them one at a time (my own, not everybody's).

[aderyn_du]

Andrea,

I'd like to see (and probably try) some dandelion recipes if I may.

Sure thing! I've sent them to your email addy...

Best,
~A

[herbivore12]

I had no idea that dandelions would help with color... do you give the flowers or the leaves, or both? Can I give them to my cockatiels?

~A

There's a list of bird-safe plants at this website (and dandelions are on the list):

http://www.multiscope.com/hotspot/safeplants.htm

I have several parrots, and occasionally foster rescued birds. It can take some time to convince a hookbill that's been raised on an unhealthy seed-based diet that greens and veggies and fruits are good to eat, but it's worth the health benefits in the long run. If your birds already eat a diet that includes greens, they might enjoy the dandelions.

The usual cautions apply: don't give your birds dandelions if you use pesticides or toxic fertilizers or other chemicals on your lawn (as you know, birds are pretty delicate when it comes to chemical exposure) or if you don't know that they're otherwise safe. Wash thoroughly, and try to remove any small bugs, etc., that might carry internal parasites.

Your 'tiels probably won't eat the flowers, though they may like tearing them up; but they may enjoy the greens, especially if they're used to eating other greens already. Some 'tiels *love* devouring leafy foods. At worst, they may love tearing 'em up, so you'll have a good source of safe toy!

[aderyn_du]

I can't really say it helped their color, I don't really remember one way or another. It doesn't hurt them. But I remember that's why we fed them flowers. The budgies ate them, too so I'd assume a tiel could. I want a bird now!

Marigold flowers are tangy and bitter (to people) so if you eat them it helps to just lightly sprinkle them on top of a salad or soup for color and to have the right dressing. Roses (the ones I've eaten) are more plain, but you want to stay with old fashioned heirloom varieties and nothing that requires a lot of fertilizers to keep them in top shape (ie, hybrid teas, etc).

I've rambled. Sorry.

I'll have to give it a try, and I'll let you know if my 'tiels enjoy them. My female, Diva, isn't too keen on new and different foods... but my male, Bard, is quite adventurous. I love my birds-- I agree, you should have one now!

I've eaten a few flowers... roses, violets, marigolds, nasturtiums, and lavender. I'd have to say that lavender and nasturtiums are my favorites.

You can ramble all you want... the rest of us do!

Best,
~A

[aderyn_du]

Your 'tiels probably won't eat the flowers, though they may like tearing them up; but they may enjoy the greens, especially if they're used to eating other greens already. Some 'tiels *love* devouring leafy foods. At worst, they may love tearing 'em up, so you'll have a good source of safe toy!

Thanks for the info! Like I was just telling Cran, Diva isn't very happy about non-seed food. She came to us from another family, and that's all they fed her-- poor babe didn't even have any toys, didn't even know what to do with them! I've gotten her to nibble on a couple veggies, but that's about it. Bard, on the other hand, loves to experiment and loves his greens! Lima beans too, but that's another story...

I'll go out and gather some dandelions later today, and see what happens!

~A

[Jack]

I'll have to give it a try, and I'll let you know if my 'tiels enjoy them. My female, Diva, isn't too keen on new and different foods... but my male, Bard, is quite adventurous. I love my birds-- I agree, you should have one now!

What an appropriate name. Female tiels are very diva-like in my experience. The boys are playful and lovely, but if you touch Ms. Thang in the wrong way, your finger is gone. LOL. A few years ago, I almost got a Quaker, but the woman who had to part with him ended up giving him to her daughter, which was better for the bird but I still cried forever. Once I get out of here I want a (few) lineolated parakeet or a parrotlet. They're so pretty. And supposed to be quiet, as far as parrots go.

[Jack]

I have several parrots, and occasionally foster rescued birds. It can take some time to convince a hookbill that's been raised on an unhealthy seed-based diet that greens and veggies and fruits are good to eat, but it's worth the health benefits in the long run. If your birds already eat a diet that includes greens, they might enjoy the dandelions.

I think I disagree that seed-based diets are unhealthy. Pellets are wonderful, don't get me wrong, but I've read a few articles that talk about the amino acids and other trace minerals and such that seeds have that pellets don't. I like to feed hookbills a seed based diet of about 60% seed, 40% pellets with all kinds of greens, fruit, flowers and such mixed in. The only softbills I've had are different finches, and the zebras wouldn't touch any greens or pellets whatsover, but the Societys ate anything you gave them.

[WyoBadger]

Against my better judgement, I just can't pass up a chance to expound some views on eating meat. Understand I'm not making fun of anyone's views or trying to change anyone's mind, but I thought someone might like to hear an environmentally conscious hunter's view on the meat/ecology issue.

The "Carnivorous" poem was funny, and rather true in a way. I eat meat, the vast majority of which I hunt and butcher myself (we can discuss hunting another time if you wish). I do most of my hunting with a primitive bow, though I will use a rifle if I need the meat. Hunting, fishing, and most of the other things I enjoy get me out in the wilderness a good deal, and I am continuously humbled to understand my true place in the ecosystem--meat and plants do not spring into existance shrink-wrapped at the grocery store. If I were to ever get attacked by a griz or a lion, I would hold no ill will against it, even as I tried very hard to either escape or kill it before it killed me. Something like a deer feels about me, I suppose.

One thing I've realized is that nothing lives without something else dying. Not to be gruesome, but even my own body will most certainly be eaten by something, someday. The deer kills the aspen seedling or barly plant (which is, might I remind you, a living thing in every sense of the word). I kill the deer. If a lion or a bear don't kill me first, someday an aspen grove will hopefully feed on my ashes. Vegans kill, they are just much more selective in what and how they kill. If that's what floats your boat and makes you feel healthy, you should follow your conscience. But broccoli lives, grows, reproduces, and is enormously complex and beautiful...sort of like a deer or a cow.

All life feeds on death. Those vegetables and grains you eat, even the organic ones, are grown on space that was once wildlife habitat--is there one less deer in the world to make room for that PBJ sandwich? Probably. I realize this isn't a hard and fast rule (I've seen a lot of deer living fat and happy in grain fields), but it's more true than not, I'm afraid.

Cruelty to animals is a different issue, of course, and some of you have raised. The hunting or rare or endangered animals is a sepperate issue as well. Unethical hunting. Unhealthy diets (game meat is extremely low in fat, by the way! ) . None of these things necessarily go with eating meat, but they are often lumped together. I kill with a clear conscience, without cruelty or malice, knowing that God made me an omnivore, and loving the animal or plant that provides what my body needs. I plan on dying with a clear conscience, as well, however it comes. It's all part of the trip.

Tom

[herbivore12]

Beef and other meats are good for you. Beef is a compact source of protein, vitamins and minerals and can restore health to starving people as well as provide what is needed for the human child to grow and thrive, unlike an adult vegan diet, which is what some people are imposing on children.

One stop at Google will bring up far more articles you might have posted that illustrate the unhealthiness of the current average American diet, for kids as well as adults; obesity reigns, kids suck down soda and junk food in unhealthy amounts, and lazy parents would rather stop at McDonald's than cook a healthy meal at home.

That really has nothing to do with a traditional balanced diet. I don't think anyone's advocating junk food and soda (much of which fits into a Vegan diet) to the tune of 3-4000 Calories a day combined with a sedentary lifestyle.

A traditional balanced diet is good. What I remarked on was the current average American diet, which I don't think is the same thing; based on what I see people eating, even here in health-obsessive California, is not what I'd call "balanced".

And yep, whether you're vegan or omni or carnivore, a junk-food based diet is bad. I don't see nearly as many vegans eating junk-food heavy diets, since many of them are vegans for either health reasons or because they're opposed to Corporate Foodstuffs and the like, but there are certainly a few around. Cranberry's stated diet seems to fit that bill (it's not too late to change, Cran!).

Something else to think about, which affects Vegan as well as omnivorous diets, is transportation of food.

This is definitely a big deal. I'm glad that I live in an area with a lot of small farms, which means I can go to local farmer's markets to get cheap, organic produce from local farmers.

I'm glad to live where I don't need an engine-block warmer, too. Brrr. . .

[jim stone]

Just rejoined the thread. Thanks for the info about
veggies on the run.

My health problem with beef is
the cholesterol, which scares me. My father
died of a coronary at 42. But I don't think
it's poison and I sometimes eat it in small
quantities.

Mostly we're eating tofu, soy milk,
lots of textured vegetable protein stuff
(Grillers, Chick Patties). Broccoli,
brussel sprouts, rice. Basically
avoiding fat and cholesterol, eating
lots of fiber, etc. Very little
cheese, very few eggs.
Seems to work OK.

My achilles heel is chicken, as in
chicken burgers at McDonalds.
I hope that
God isn't a big chicken.

[Jack]

I hope that
God isn't a big chicken.

God is a little chicken.

[markv]

...'Enders, thanks for the debate. I think militancy on either side -- the violently vegan (who weird me out) and the combative carnivores (likewise) -- is energy wasted on strife the world doesn't need. Becoming an informed eater, of whatever diet one chooses, is probably the thing to do. Finding a diet that's healthy and satisfying and that fits our lifestyle and worldview makes mealtimes -- a pretty fair chunk of our lives -- both pleasurable and meaningful, rather than a chore.

Food is good.

That paragraph expresses my views on diet\life choices so much more elegantly than I could have written.

My wife and I try very hard to ensure that our children (both breast fed) have well balanced diets and that we don't take the easy way out and grab fast food on the way home from work. I do most of the cooking in our house (was a sous chef at one point in my life, basically sous chefs do all the work and the chef takes credit!) and work pretty hard at creating "menus" for the week. With a little bit of pre-preparation and carefull shopping you can create full meals in a very short time. I can whip up a complete meal in less time than it takes for the pizza guy to deliver.

Our family always has meals together at that most precious location in the house, the kitchen table, which in our modern society has become a forgotten place. We thank the Creator for what he has provided and talk about the day and share our lives with each other. Granted my son is only 1 so his contribution is usually laughter or dropping the food he didn't like carefully on the floor, but he shares right along with us. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Mark V.

We also recycle all we can, have a large garden (no pesticide and organic fertilizer and compost), eat very little red meat and only free range chicken\pork products from a local farm (eggs from there too), have engine block heaters on our cars (gets well below zero here), turn off all lights we don't need including porch lights (backyard astronomer and light polution drives me nuts!), and nobody in our house lets the water run when they brush their teeth (big pet peeve of mine too), use live traps and sound deterents for the annual mouse invasion in the fall, and am slowly converting larger tracts of our yard to native grasses that use less water and mowing (previous owner must have had a deal with the water company since the whole yard was blue-grass sod and the trees were river birch!)