Irony? And a thought.

[PJ]

(Now start working on Ellen Galvin, that will teach you.)

Kinda odd for you to take these guys to task for not appreciating someone they'll likely never get to hear, Peter!

From http://www.westclare.com/activities.htm :

Ellen (Nell) Galvin of Moyasta Traditional Music Weekend

Held at Clancy's Bar, Moyasta, Kilrush, Co. Clare on Friday 31st August, Saturday 1st September and Sunday 2nd September, 2007.

There's a nice bit of bio on her there for those whose curiousity was piqued.

I'll wager that if you are wondering "what's the big deal with Ennis", Nell Galvin would prove utterly confounding, so making the few existing recordings of her available commercially would probably be worse than pointless. She is, however, revered by many of those who are in turn revered by many... if you catch my meaning.

Bill

Ronan Browne refers to her during his concert in the Masters of Tradition Festival 2006 (see the recent Ronan Browne thread).

[Patrick D'Arcy]

She is a wonderful wild player.... Patrick Kelly on steroids! Amazing music not heard today. The same could be said of Martin Rochford.

Pat.

[canpiper]

I really would love for this to drop, and as soon as people stop addressing me, I'll stop posting.

...The above quote demonstrates to me what a combination of inexperience and brass balls can do... look/sound pretty silly.

Canpiper, no offense intended (honestly), but I must recommend that before you post (or "click" the submit button) your topics or responses to your topics, take the time to weigh what effect the impact of your words may have upon others.
edited for spelling.

Honestly Joseph, the kind of devotion to a deceased musician that I've seen here is just unprecedented in my experience - I couldn't have anticipated the kinds of reactions I received. Had I fully appreciated the reverence with which people regard Ennis, my first post in the other thread may not have been as casual as it was. I've also received enough PM's over this, however, to think that my critics may have over-reacted to my first post and have, perhaps, forgotten what I wrote in the others.

Whether you realize it or not, you are most likely already playing in a manner that was either created or inspired by the work of Seamus Ennis.

edited for spelling.

That seems to be true. But there is a difference between appreciating someone for the role they played in a tradition, and appreciating them purely on the basis of what you hear in the moment (and you can’t hear someone’s role in a tradition without knowing what to look for).

In the moment, it seems, there is a wealth of important things in Ennis’ playing to learn from and appreciate- the kinds of things Peter keeps talking about, things which, I don't think I'm crazy or musically inept to think, may not be immediately obvious to a beginner. There are also lots of squeaks, and squawks. Hence the question.

As for the difficulty of answering a question like the one I asked - well, if you check, you'll see that I conceded that from the beginning, and elaborated on it in later posts. All the same, the question did, in the end, get answered fairly well. Consider posts like eric's. Very informative for a beginner. And if the experienced people on this forum found the question exhausting, or too difficult to answer, they didn’t have to say anything.

Finally, if people withheld their questions until they figured these fundamental things out on their own, from what I’ve seen, there wouldn’t be many posts on the Forum.

[Cayden]

there wouldn’t be many posts on the Forum.

You make it sound like it would be a bad thing

[simonknight]

Honestly Joseph, the kind of devotion to a deceased musician that I've seen here is just unprecedented in my experience

Uh ... Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannoball Adderly, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi .... Don't think there's anything unprecedented going on.

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Royce?

[brianc]

Royce?

Beginning to wonder that myself...

[PJ]

Honestly Joseph, the kind of devotion to a deceased musician that I've seen here is just unprecedented in my experience

Uh ... Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannoball Adderly, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi .... Don't think there's anything unprecedented going on.

Don't forget ... the King!!

[simonknight]

Honestly Joseph, the kind of devotion to a deceased musician that I've seen here is just unprecedented in my experience

Uh ... Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Cannoball Adderly, Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Vivaldi .... Don't think there's anything unprecedented going on.

Don't forget ... the King!!

He's not deceased!

[Patrick D'Arcy]

Tha yu ery mush

Elbees.

[tommykleen]

Tha yu ery mush

Trans: thank you very mush.

t

[Joseph E. Smith]

As for the difficulty of answering a question like the one I asked - well, if you check, you'll see that I conceded that from the beginning, and elaborated on it in later posts. All the same, the question did, in the end, get answered fairly well. Consider posts like eric's. Very informative for a beginner. And if the experienced people on this forum found the question exhausting, or too difficult to answer, they didn’t have to say anything.

Finally, if people withheld their questions until they figured these fundamental things out on their own, from what I’ve seen, there wouldn’t be many posts on the Forum.

Nobody found your question(s) difficult or exhausting to answer.

Sometimes, just sometimes, it is best simply to learn a few things about certain topics prior to spewing opinions about them... unless, of course, you really want to know the educated opinions of those folk who have learned a thing or two about them. That is a lesson, I confess, I am still learning myself from time to time.

[Ceann Cromtha]

There are also lots of squeaks, and squawks. Hence the question.

I think that with regard to Seamus Ennis, two things (both of which have been mention on this forum) must be kept in mind: (1) the recording of his playing was done under what many today would deem "primative," and (2) a lot of his recorded playing was done when he was past his prime (but still light years beyond most!). Keeping both these things in mind, I think that when one listens to him they can hear (1) what he actually plays (the surface realization) and (2) what he intended to play (the "deep structure," as it were). Most of us are quite happy to do the first of these, but, as apsiring pipers we must also train our ears to do the second thing.

I can't help thinking of an analogy on language processing regarding this. When my second-grade daughter (a native speaker of American English) is exposed to someone speaking another dialect of English, she has trouble understanding and parsing the utterance. A beginning-level learner of a foreign language has the same trouble understanding parts of the target language beyond pristine hypercorrect examples typical of tapes accompanying a basic grammar. Experienced native speakers, on the other hand, can make all the necessary adjustments and understand and parse such variations within reason. They can do this because they know the parameters of the system. I think that this is the level of understanding to which we should strive in our playing and listening skills. I think that this is why more experienced players/listeners have responded to this post with such exasperation.

[oliver]

Keeping both these things in mind, I think that when one listens to him they can hear (1) what he actually plays (the surface realization) and (2) what he intended to play (the "deep structure," as it were).

I think that when one listens to Ennis, one realises he takes risks most of the time. To me, that's what makes his piping so interesting, it's full of surprise. Always new things he does or intends to do. I think the same of Clancy. It's probably that that makes them different from other pipers, a lot of musicality and creativity while playing.
Apart from his piping, I also appreciate Ennis' dignity, his posture when seated with his pipes strapped on.

As for the comparison with languages, I think it really makes sense.

[PJ]

(1) the recording of his playing was done under what many today would deem "primative," ...

Are you referring to the technical aspects of recording (reel-to-reel recorders, 1950s studio technology, etc) or to SE's preference for "single take" recordings (no overdubs, no multi-tracking, minimum retakes, etc)?