Posting clips

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:10 pm

Just had a quick listen to a couple of the "slow" tracks there - can see what you mean Diane, although don't see it as quite so obtrusive as you obviously find it. I think the rather rich acoustic (real or electronic? the latter, I think) doesn't help as it exposes it more - I find that boomy sound more annoying than the vibrato! That player has certainly got the same problem with relaxed breath control, though.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:35 pm

Hey all,
here's a tune I wrote a while back called 'the moth in the lantern.' A quick one off as I just got home. I was trying to not 'blow my brains out' Jem, though it may sound otherwise.

Arbo

http://www.box.net/shared/of5hv9bbki

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:37 pm

monkey587 wrote: I would think of a reel rhythm normally as either of these:
XxxxXxxx
xxXxxxXx

Whereas you are playing this one as:
XxXxXxXx

Which, at this tempo and considering the heaviness of your downbeats and your tendency to replace even pairs of notes with a long and short, is easily mistaken for 2/4 polka or march.

What does it sound like when you play this stuff exactly the same way but at your 'normal' reel tempo?

Fair enough - though I'd have thought the long-short thing was more hornpipey than polka-ish? The greater emphasis on all the main beats is probably more a function of the slow speed than anything. I don't think I play any other tune quite like I do Mills, but then, it's a pretty unusual tune, in that setting at any rate. And I'm not particularly trying to be straight trad about it - more to interpret it "my way" using trad techniques in perhaps "unorthodox" ways to achieve an aesthetic effect I like. I don't play that particular tune at "normal" reel speed - just been off to try it - can do it OK, but don't much like it - kinda loses its "taste" for me - probably a function of long familiarity - good to shake it up, actually! Again, that is for me the main point of posting and getting feedback - to re-assess what one does in the light of others' perceptions - not necessarily to go and change it forthwith or drastically; but the analysis with a fresh ear is always worthwhile.

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:52 pm

jemtheflute wrote: Fair enough - though I'd have thought the long-short thing was more hornpipey than polka-ish?

hmm... the accent and flow of it says polka to me. sorry...

The greater emphasis on all the main beats is probably more a function of the slow speed than anything. I don't think I play any other tune quite like I do Mills, but then, it's a pretty unusual tune, in that setting at any rate. And I'm not particularly trying to be straight trad about it - more to interpret it "my way" using trad techniques in perhaps "unorthodox" ways to achieve an aesthetic effect I like. I don't play that particular tune at "normal" reel speed - just been off to try it - can do it OK, but don't much like it - kinda loses its "taste" for me - probably a function of long familiarity - good to shake it up, actually! Again, that is for me the main point of posting and getting feedback - to re-assess what one does in the light of others' perceptions - not necessarily to go and change it forthwith or drastically; but the analysis with a fresh ear is always worthwhile.

OK.

Here's Bobby Casey's take on Tuttle's (which is at least similar to your tune, even if you disagree that it's the same). Sorry for the m4a instead of mp3.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 4:57 pm

monkey587 wrote:
jemtheflute wrote:I have come across recordings of reels played slowly in similar fashion, e.g. Martin Nolan's rendition of Bocht agus Sona and of course the infamous Bothy Band Maids of Mitchellstown
I just listened to said Maids of Mitchellstown. Matt plays very much with the xxXxxxXx rhythm I described. It is not the same rhythm.

I guess I'm just perplexed. I'm not trying to be harsh, but the rhythm that I hear in your recording doesn't match your intention. I pretty much listen to irish music all day long every day, and I have not heard anyone play reels with that pulse.

These cross postings with two themes going on are getting confusing!!!!!! I was going to go out to a sesh tonight, got sidetracked by all this, and here I still am!

OK, William - not taken as harsh at all - I suppose when I wrote "similar fashion" I was thinking only of speed - the whole pulse/rhythm thing had not crossed my mind at all and "intention" probably never consciously came into the equation - and as I just wrote above, my development of that interpretation has never been about trying to be purist trad. If I've turned the tune into a slow hornpipe or polka or whatever by the way I play it, fine - the tune itself is still a reel and I'm messing about with it. It's an interpretation developed from written notation, not influenced by anyone's playing of it because I've never heard anyone else play it, and until this-evening I don't think I've ever tried to play it as a normal reel since first discovering it. You've led me to realise that I do play it differently from the other slowed down reels I know - and I wouldn't even have thought about that without this thread.

I'm not sure that any of this matters a great deal, but it is interesting. I'm also not sure if you intended your comments as critical or just as analytical - I took them the latter way. If they were meant as a disapproving criticism, I have no problem with that - I don't really care on numbers like that whether I am playing in somebody's idea of an orthodox traditional idiom, whatever they perceive that to be or however well informed they are. I'm not trying to! There are (most) other things I play where that would matter more to me - in this case I just hope some people like that interpretation for itself as a piece of music that works in itself (if it does), not quite regardless of its roots, but not tied down by them.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:09 pm

Oops, we've crossed again. William, my computer doesn't seem to like that Bobby Casey clip, unfortunately - RealPlayer is opening it but not playing it properly - just intermittent squeaks and pips. BTW, I only said that the dots for Tuttle's on F'sC didn't look similar to me - nor sound much like my tune when I tried to play a few bars - not that Bobby Casey's track wasn't cognate..... not having heard it, how could I?

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:15 pm

jemtheflute wrote:I'm also not sure if you intended your comments as critical or just as analytical - I took them the latter way.

I was going for "gentle constructive criticism." If you're not trying to be trad, I guess that changes the whole picture. If you are happy with your music then there's no need to consider anything I've said, because you are your first audience. But if you say it's a reel and it sounds like a polka to an experienced listener, at least take a look at it.

Edited to say "experienced listener." It seems like all I do these days, so I will claim the title.

ImNotIrish · Post by **ImNotIrish** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:22 pm

Okay Jem, I just listened to your clip (reel) and I have to agree with William- it does sound like a polka/march and not a reel. Lovely, just the same (God, I love the sound of the R&R!). By the way William, I couldn't get the Bobby Casey clip to play properly either!
Arbo

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:23 pm

jemtheflute wrote:Oops, we've crossed again. William, my computer doesn't seem to like that Bobby Casey clip, unfortunately - RealPlayer is opening it but not playing it properly - just intermittent squeaks and pips. BTW, I only said that the dots for Tuttle's on F'sC didn't look similar to me - nor sound much like my tune when I tried to play a few bars - not that Bobby Casey's track wasn't cognate..... not having heard it, how could I?

Well, you said you hadn't heard anyone else play it before.

try this instead

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:30 pm

monkey587 wrote:
jemtheflute wrote:I'm also not sure if you intended your comments as critical or just as analytical - I took them the latter way.
I was going for "gentle constructive criticism." If you're not trying to be trad, I guess that changes the whole picture. If you are happy with your music then there's no need to consider anything I've said, because you are your first audience. But if you say it's a reel and it sounds like a polka to someone else, at least take a look at it.

And appreciated as such, thanks. Mostly I do want to be "trad" - in a fairly loose, generic sense - not a particular regional style or whatever, and I don't stick to ITM either, as is obvious. I would be interested to know, if at this late stage you can listen with fresh ears and forget about what rhythmic category the tune belongs to, if it had been unlabelled in the first place, you would have liked it simply for itself as a soundscape? As I said, I have found your analysis interesting and helpful - and have clearly been looking at it as this conversation shows! Whilst I shall doubtless continue to play Mills in substantially the same way, I will probably in future introduce it as being "based on the original reel" rather than simply as "a slow reel". I do understand your point about it not having a reel pulse as I play it and that is something new learnt and valued. I still can't feel polka in it though, no matter which way I look at it - maybe that says more about where I am with polkas, though - not at all expert!

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:33 pm

monkey587 wrote:try this instead

Yes, definitely a closely related melody/version of the same tune - thanks, that one works fine! Very nice it is too.

jemtheflute · Post by **jemtheflute** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:40 pm

ImNotIrish wrote:Okay Jem, I just listened to your clip (reel) and I have to agree with William- it does sound like a polka/march and not a reel. Lovely, just the same (God, I love the sound of the R&R!). By the way William, I couldn't get the Bobby Casey clip to play properly either!
Arbo

Thanks, Arbo - glad you enjoyed it, whatever it is!

With all this going on (a busy and, I think, profitable evening!), I haven't listened to your latest yet - will let you know when I get around to it!

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:47 pm

jemtheflute wrote:I would be interested to know , if at this late stage you can listen with fresh ears and forget about what rhythmic category the tune belongs to, if it had been unlabelled in the first place, you would have liked it simply for itself as a soundscape?

It doesn't appeal to me. A piece like this, especially a solo & unaccompanied, needs to create a sense of space to really work*. I listened to this track several times today, and I confess that it took me a few times to figure out that the air and the reel were connected.

*: and i'm not saying my clips have it, either. It's a very difficult thing, especially to capture in a recording.

sbfluter · Post by **sbfluter** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:48 pm

Yes I definitely hear the difference in the rhythms.

The fiddler (and I loved that, thank you for posting it!) emphasizes the rhythm very differently. It's like the first beat is a strong down beat, and the third beat gets a completely different kind of emphasis. He puts all those long slides and fun things there, so the third beat is something other than just another downbeat. Wonderful!

I think Jem does emphasize the third beat more like a downbeat. Not as strong as the first, but not the same as the fiddler does it either.

Thanks, this is an interesting discussion.

monkey587 · Post by **monkey587** » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:57 pm

sbfluter wrote:Yes I definitely hear the difference in the rhythms.

The fiddler (and I loved that, thank you for posting it!) emphasizes the rhythm very differently. It's like the first beat is a strong down beat, and the third beat gets a completely different kind of emphasis. He puts all those long slides and fun things there, so the third beat is something other than just another downbeat. Wonderful!

I think Jem does emphasize the third beat more like a downbeat. Not as strong as the first, but not the same as the fiddler does it either.

Thanks, this is an interesting discussion.

The recording came from Bobby Casey's "Taking Flight" which is currently unavailable. There's a new CD of his music just released that should be amazing. Much of it has been played on the clarefm.ie podcast recently and IMO every bit of it is genius.