OT: Food for Thought

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:19 pm

On 2002-03-13 21:10, bgull wrote:
they must show a causal link between the reality we experience and the "mystical realm" that they "believe" exists.

Alright spanky, you want a casual link? Lets assume the universe does exist (which I actually do beleive it does, although I cannot prove it. That alone is going on "faith" when you really think about it, but I digress... *ahem*)

How did it get here? And the "big bang" theory doesn't explain that either. How did all that infinite matter and energy condensed into an infinite density get there in the first place?

Something does not simply pop out of nothing. It's not possible. Spontaneous generation was disproven quite some time ago. Life begets life. Nothingness does not lead to life, the universe, or anything at all.

JessieK, you say no God nor Creator exists, I say that requires more faith than does the belief in God or gods or a creative energy of some sort.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:21 pm

TelegramSam, please point out to me where you think I insulted you or other Christians. I don't see it. I have already addressed the definition of delusional (to believe something that isn't true). It is my belief that you believe something that isn't true. How is that an insult? I didn't say "lunatic" or "schizophrenic." You did. There is a place for everything. This board is not a good place for religion, because people are bound to feel so strongly about it. So you can keep on attacking me, which, by the way, IS starting to get on my nerves, but if you do it again, please do explain where you think I was insulting.

EDIT:

TelegramSam:
JessieK, you say no God nor Creator exists, I say that requires more faith than does the belief in God or gods or a creative energy of some sort.

Um, what's your point? I think we will never know the full truth about how it all came to be. We are mere humans...the earth was here before we were and it will probably outlive us. I think inventing and believing in God is the easy way out. It just doesn't go with my reality.

Jessie

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: JessieK on 2002-03-13 21:25 ]</font>

Grannymouse · Post by **Grannymouse** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:28 pm

Hmmmmmmm.......interesting thread. I don't mean to make you nausous Jessie, but it is difficult for me to look at your picture by the sea without thinking "God is there someplace." Guess it's just the way I look at it. Peace and grace, Gm

brownja · Post by **brownja** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:29 pm

To say...

On 2002-03-13 20:17, dlambert wrote:

Here are a few thoughts from the Word.

But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord.

And then turn around and say...

i wasn't preaching to you or anyone Jessie

is disingenuous in the extreme.

jb

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:34 pm

Betty, nature can be beautiful. It is not necessary to give credit to some external force (or, in the extreme and most common view, figure). But it's ok with me that you do.

Jessie

bgull · Post by **bgull** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:37 pm

Again, by asking *me* to disprove the premse that "God" created the universe (which is what you are doing with your argument), you are demanding that I "prove a negative". Again, you insert the premise of "doubt of the validity of knowedge" as your argument.

As I stated before I, nor anyone else is *rationally* able to do this. I'm not biting.

You imply that the human mind is a flawed tool to grasp the *truth* of the reality around us - and any knowleage derived form that reality therefore is in doubt. You set an impossible standard - and then pose an irrational standard (inspired knowlege) in it's place.

My name is not "Spanky", if this is the tone that this thread is going take I'll not bother to reply further.

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:39 pm

"But I suppose "God" is a bad word to me because is bothers me that some very smart and good people are completely delusional to the point of inventing and believing a story that simplifies the unexplainable into a digestable fairytale."

How do you know God was invented? You can beleive that if you want, but you can't prove it. You can't claim to know "for a fact" that God doesn't exist because He can't be either proven or disproven.

"I just want to mention that it's not just Christians that I think are delusional...it's anyone who believes in God or a God-like figure. And I don't think it (delusional) is a rude word. Go look it up. To me it means, "believes something that isn't true.""

Prove to me that what I hold to be true is false. Prove it. Don't make claims against others that you can't back up.

"is that I don't claim to know the truth."

Actually every statement you've made has been based on your beleif that God doesn't and simply cannot exist. You said flat out that my faith "isn't true"

You want to know why I'm pissed? It's because you act as though beleive you are somehow better or smarter or have more insight than the rest of us. You're just as much a limited mortal as I. You don't know anything more than I do and the fact that you have the gall and pomp to do so is as annoying to me as the "preaching" you find so distasteful. I can't stand bigotry in anybody, not in other Christains, not in any group. I have nothing against other religions. Many of my friends are atheist, agnostic, or pagan. I have nothing against them. I respect their belifs, and all I ask from them is to return that respect. That's all I ask of you or anyone else.

I do not care if you believe, but you do not have the right to claim that I am delusional or stupid or anything else for believing what I do.

dlambert · Post by **dlambert** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:44 pm

i guess i will take one more crack at this.

when i quoted the part about having Christ in your heart i did that to show that the following was directed to Christians not non-Christians. i wasn't trying to tell anyone what to believe. i was pointing out what the Bible had to say about tolerance. hopefully that explains it.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:45 pm

Ok, TelegramSam. Some of that makes sense. I suppose I do believe that God doesn't exist, and I believe it to be absolutely true. But there is a lot more to the ultimate truth than that. I don't know how we got here. And I guess you're right. I feel superior to most people I encounter. And yeah, it's lonely.

Jessie

TelegramSam · Post by **TelegramSam** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:52 pm

Oh nevermind, it's alright.

Sorry I threw a fit.

I've taken a whole lot of crap from a lot of people for being Christian. To the point of phyiscal violence in a couple cases. I get overly defensive sometimes...

I don't hate you or anything. You just make me mad.

Um, new rule for the forum: no relgiously charged posts.

Makes people irate...

paulsdad · Post by **paulsdad** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 8:55 pm

It’s obvious from the responses to this posting that many people have very strong feelings on both sides of this issue. In their zeal to convince others or in reaction to other postings, C&F members have intentionally or unintentionally hurt other member’s feelings.

People who feel strongly about an issue are unlikely to change their minds as a result of anything posted to the bulletin board. If anything, they are apt to become more firmly entrenched in their beliefs.

Although I personally have very definite religious beliefs, statements made here by others do not offend me. In time, they may change their minds.

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:01 pm

Jazz · Post by **Jazz** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:05 pm

Thanks Jessie. Soooo cute.

Loren · Post by **Loren** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:24 pm

Is that Luna on top and Sola on the bottom?

JessieK · Post by **JessieK** » Wed Mar 13, 2002 9:28 pm

Nope. Sola is 5 months younger...she's on top. She was licking Luna's ear. I hadn't seen this picture in years and I came across it yesterday. I love it. I just thought posting it would be a wonderfully inappropriate (in the spirit of the thread) way to draw this argument to a close.