dots vs ears

[Lorenzo]

Just Who Is Cthulhu?

Cthulhu is one of the Great Old Ones,
an unnatural alien pipe being who
ruled the Earth before humanity formed,
as attributed by some misguided people.
It is said that he will return, causing
worldwide insanity and mindless violence
before finally displacing humanity forever--
AKA the Alien Pipe Rennaisance.

[Denny]

Just Who Is Cthulhu?

Cthulhu is one of the Great Old Ones,
an unnatural alien pipe being who
ruled the Earth before humanity formed,
as attributed by some misguided people.
It is said that he will return, causing
worldwide insanity and mindless violence
before finally displacing humanity forever--
AKA the Alien Pipe Rennaisance.

I'd think he has returned!

[Lorenzo]

I agree...perhaps in the form of Nanohedron tentachnology.

[Denny]

I agree...perhaps in the form of Nanohedron tentachnology.

Perhaps so, sir!

[Whistlin'Dixie]

Anyway....

While running the vacuum this morning I have been pondering this question.

I have recently gotten my hands on some "Irish Session Class" CD's.
All the tunes are trad.
They are played on fiddle with guitar accompaniment. (Thus, some of the tunes are in the odd key or go way below the staff, but I digress)
The tunes are played in small sets, then each tune played through slowly, several times.
I have been working on CD: Class No. 10.
It occurred to me this morning that I can play all the tunes, many of them up to speed now.
In going over the slow versions, you can learn the tune. It can be played over and over again! So you never have to tire a friend! You don't really need the dots. Pretty soon, you can hum the tune, pick out most of the notes, then eventually you find yourself able to play along with some of the faster version, then all of it.

I have been busy at work lately, and haven't had much chance to play during the past 2 or 3 weeks. But when I put on the CD this morning, it didn't take me long to get the tunes, and I think it is because I learned them by ear, not eye.

Anyway, it's just a personal observation. I am trying to commit to learning by ear from CD's or whatever, and I think there is a pretty steep learning curve at first. But I think the ear has to be trained a bit, first.

But whatever helps, I say go for it.

M

[fluti31415]

Anyway....


In going over the slow versions, you can learn the tune. It can be played over and over again! So you never have to tire a friend! You don't really need the dots. Pretty soon, you can hum the tune, pick out most of the notes, then eventually you find yourself able to play along with some of the faster version, then all of it.

<snip>

But whatever helps, I say go for it.

M

I'm with you Mary -- I have a gazillion tunes that I "mostly" know. I bet that we all have some of those. They are the tunes that we have down, except for that bar and a half in the B section that always seems to zip by so fast. Hearing them slow a few times makes the difference for me.

Listening, slowing down, using dots -- as long as we are using each to supplement the others, how does it make a difference? (as long as the result sounds good, that is).

[Tjones]

Mary,

"I have recently gotten my hands on some "Irish Session Class" CD's.
All the tunes are trad.
They are played on fiddle with guitar accompaniment."

Are these Dan Compton's class CD's?

Thanks,

Tjones

[Whistlin'Dixie]

Mary,

"I have recently gotten my hands on some "Irish Session Class" CD's.
All the tunes are trad.
They are played on fiddle with guitar accompaniment."

Are these Dan Compton's class CD's?

Thanks,

Tjones

Yes, they are. Based on your recommendation, as a matter of fact!
So far, I have been working on CD's # 10 and #11.
I am enjoying them very much.

I find I like playing with the fiddle accompaniment, as well.
Nice combo.

M

[Cathy Wilde]

.... I can learn a tune by ear during a session ...but I can't seem to remember it the next morning. That's what I use the dots for.

Clark

Yes. They're like mental sticky-notes!
I also find sheet music handy for things I don't have recordings of or tunes no one else around knows ... at least they're a basic framework.

[fearfaoin]

I find it amusing how many people who avoid notation, either because they haven't learned to read, or - worse - declare it non-traditional and therefore wrong, will advocate a slow-down technology to assist learning. By slowing down the tune greatly to figure out individual notes, both the lift and feel are altered. Kind of like reading the notes. Both spoon fed.

I advocate any use of technology one needs to improve one's playing,
slow-downers, abc, pdfs, XYZ-PDQ, canned Guiness...

But I disagree with your assertion. Even when a recording is slowed
down, the rhythm remains intact... and it will be learned along with the
notes. Once the tune is sped up (you should eventually ween yourself
off playing along with the slowed-down tune), the lift and feel will
remain intact.

[Denny]

Dots are evil
Dots are bad
Dots are just a passing fad.

[Gordon]

First off, I wasn't speaking against technology -- simply saying that notation is no worse (or better, I suppose) than using computer programs to make learning easier. Learning is learning, and playing is -- well -- playing. The idea that to learn trad music, one needs to do it the way it was done originally (whenever, exactly, that was) is somewhat silly. If you can read, it will help.

I also think the slowed-down tune does lose lift and feel. Even playing a tune quickly, then slowly, evokes a different feel and lift. Further, a slowed recording (depending how slow) is often unrecognizable, lift and feel be damned. I don't think this is a problem, mind, but neither is reading notation.

Now, whether that notation is a good or useful setting -- now that's a topic for a completely different (and equally long) thread...

Best,
Gordon

[peeplj]

When you look back at the history of written music ("the dots"), you find that from the beginning it has always represented only the crude outlines of the music.

At first pitch was given only relatively--and withing a very loose framework!--and rhythm was indicated only by the verse to be sung.

Through the years more precise ways of indicating intervals, and then later exact notes, came into play. Methods of indicating time and rhythm began to be experimented with...and this is the part where written music and performed music began to really influence each other, as the loose and flowing rhythms of plainsong became fixed rhythms within the framework of the steady beat. This is important, because that steady beat didn't exist before.

Performed and written music still influence each other. There are still artists experimenting with better and more accurate ways to notate music. And never before in the history of music have the dots on the page been considered to be the "last word" on how a piece should be played--that's entirely a 20th-century way of thinking. I should also note many fine 20th (and 21st!) century artists don't adhere to that way of thinking: Irish musicians are not the only ones for whom the "dots" are not the final word!

All Western music, including Irish trad, has been influenced by the evolution of music in both its performed and written varieties. Even the concept of a steady beat isn't intrinsic to music, but was part of this evolution.

My point?

You can "swear off the dots" all you like, but you cannot remove the influence of the history of music from Irish traditional music. That history has been heavily influenced by the evolution of the written melody.

--James

[Screeeech!!!]

Dots are evil
Dots are bad
Dots are just a passing fad.

Your idea of a passing fad is somewhat different to mine. Considering dots were in use before i was born, and will certainly be in use till the day i die, i certainly wouldn't call them a passing fad.

[Cathy Wilde]

Denny was just quoting Palestrina.