To thumbhole or not to thumbhole - that is the question!

[Denny]

2 thumbholes, and a low pinkie hole - why not not go the whole way and have ten holes... now the only question is what would this tenth hole do?

G#

'course ya gotta learn to run T3 & T4 together most of the time...

[Thomaston]

Upper pinkie for G#, I hadn't even thought of that. I really need to get back into making pvc whistles. That would make for a fun challenge.

[Peter Duggan]

Upper pinkie for G#, I hadn't even thought of that.

Logically, it would have to be T3 for G# and T4 for G with open holes (no closed-standing keys)...

[Denny]

yer one of those people that don't understand what I say, aren't ya

'course ya gotta learn to run T3 & T4 together most of the time...

[Thomaston]

Upper pinkie for G#, I hadn't even thought of that.

Logically, it would have to be T3 for G# and T4 for G with open holes (no closed-standing keys)...

I was thinking it would work like xxox oooo

[Denny]

I thought like who'd a thunk it, eh

Code: Select all

G  TXXXX  OOOO
G# TXXXO  OOOO

oh, BTW, for youse that's managed not to encounter the open/closed G# key issue
g'day! do enjoy

[Aanvil]

I played the C holed varient that MtGuru has this last weekend. It was a little odd at first but after a few minutes I could use it very easily. It's a really nice whistle ta boot.

It gives you a really nice c when you need it.

I suspect we've all grown so used to having a weak veiled Cnat that we don't even realize we might need it. Once you hear the difference the choice is pretty easy.

I have a C key on my flute so it is not such a difficult idea to wrap my head around.

Now, I won't be running out and drilling holes in all my whistles but I might consider buying a new one with it.

[MTGuru]

I played the C holed varient that MtGuru has this last weekend. It was a little odd at first but after a few minutes I could use it very easily. It's a really nice whistle ta boot.

You were, like, totally grooving on that thumbhole, Aanvil. It was downright scary.

I'll be posting a write-up on the thumbhole and whistle very soon ...

[educciman]

Please have fun with checking out my thumbhole-variation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ScddKL ... ure=relmfu

[DavieD]

Please have fun with checking out my thumbhole-variation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2ScddKL ... ure=relmfu

educciman's viedeo shows, that we can find two different versions of thumbholes.

1. I will call it the "Burke type" (I think it is the most common one)
In this case you open the thumbhole only for the Cnat (while playing xoo ooo)
You are free to play the whistle exactly as any other whistle.
And you can tape the thumbhole, if you don't like it and the whistle works as any other.

2. <edited>Let's call it "additional type" thumbhole.
In this case, you have to open the thumbhole for the Csharp as well. If you don't, the Csharp is flat.
educciman is using this type in his video.
So, you have to use the thumbhole, or the intonation of the whistle is bad.
You can't tape the thumbhole on this whistles.

I think, it is important to know, what type of thumbhole a whistle has before ordering a whistle.

I favour the first version, because I'm not willing to learn a new Csharp fingering that only works on specific whistles.

BTW: The position on educciman's thumbhole seems very unusual to me.
It seems to sit more at the side than at the bottom of the barrel.

[hans]

2. I will call it the "Bracker type", for Hans whistles with a thumbhole work like this. educciman is using this type in his video.
In this case, you have to open the thumbhole for the Csharp as well. If you don't do it, the Csharp is flat.
So, you have to use the thumbhole, or the intonation of the whistle is bad.
You can't tape the thumbhole on this whistles.

I think, it is important to know this before ordering a whistle.

I like to correct that: it is true that I've built some whistles which needed the thumb hole open for a good C#, but I have for a long time designed the finger holes on my whistles, so that the thumb hole does not need to be opened for the C#, and the whistle has a good cross-fingered Cnat as well as the thumb hole Cnat (if one is requested). So a thumb hole could indeed be taped over without upsetting the intonation of C#. It is just an additional hole, without the locations or diameters of the other holes being redesigned. Perhaps it may be called more correctly an "additional type" thumb hole.

But please also note that if the tone holes are designed to give a good cross-fingered Cnat with OXXOOO (on a six hole whistle), the C# will be a bit flat, and needs to be pushed a bit. If you want to play a C# in equal temperament you will need to push it even more. There is no way to avoid that. Using an additional thumb hole can correct this anomaly, as you can raise the C# a bit by opening the thumb hole, without resorting to additional air pressure.

[DavieD]

Sorry, Hans
I've edited the post, ok?
Cheers, David

[R Small]

I like to raise the thumb for C# (O OOOOOO as opposed to X OOOOOO). This makes the fingering similar to a Boehm flute C# and makes moving chromatically easier since you don't have to flip-flop the index finger and thumb when playing C nat. to C# or C# to C nat. If the whistle is designed to play C# with the thumbhole covered the C# will be a little sharp with the thumbhole open. This can be corrected by taping over part of the first hole, maybe a third to even half of the hole. Of course this will also flatten and possibly ruin the cross-fingered C but if you use thumbhole C exclusively as I do it's not an issue.

[hans]

Sorry, Hans
I've edited the post, ok?
Cheers, David

But what you call #1 "Burke type" I would call "additional type", and #2 I would perhaps call "integrated type" (not such a great name), where the thumb hole is integrated into the design with all the other finger holes, rather than just added to the design layout. I am building according to #1.

[DavieD]

But what you call #1 "Burke type" I would call "additional type", and #2 I would perhaps call "integrated type" (not such a great name), where the thumb hole is integrated into the design with all the other finger holes, rather than just added to the design layout. I am building according to #1.

Do you agree with the following:

1. "standard thumb hole": A thumb hole, that doesn't affect the normal fingering of the whistle. Can be taped to get a normal whistle.

2. "Boehm type thumbhole": A thumb hole than can be opend to play Cnat, but has to be opend for C#
"Boehm type" according to:

I like to raise the thumb for C# (O OOOOOO as opposed to X OOOOOO). This makes the fingering similar to a Boehm flute C# ....