pipers grip vs. normal

flutefry · Post by **flutefry** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:30 pm

If one watches a hurdles race at world track and field championships, it's obvious that all hurdlers at that level use the same technique. It suggests that there is an optimal solution to the problem. However, it's not proof, because new knowledge might change the solution.

If one looks at pictures of professional classical flute players, there is also very little variation. This might be because it's optimal, or because it's traditional so everyone is taught this way. Again, we can't use this as evidence that it's the best way, or against the possibility that there's a better way.

If one looks at famous Irish flute players, one can see many different ways of holding the flute. This could suggest that there is no optimal way, or it could suggest that one can succeed with a suboptimal way. Regardless, what works for the majority, or for a subset, says nothing about the best way. Everyone could be wrong. A subset could be right, and a subset wrong. Everyone could be close enough to the best solution, so it doesn't matter (I favour this).

So far there hasn't been any evidence presented that explains if there is a good reason to think that we know the best way to hold a flute, or not. Maybe the problem is too complex to solve. Strange that asking if we know, or just think we know, should be controversial to some.

Hugh

jim stone · Post by **jim stone** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:41 pm

'If one looks at pictures of professional classical flute players, there is also very little variation. This might be because it's optimal, or because it's traditional so everyone is taught this way. Again, we can't use this as evidence that it's the best way, or against the possibility that there's a better way.'

Good post, IMO. My finicky caveat. Evidence that something
is the best way needn't be so strong as to prove it's
the best way. It need only support that conclusion
by making it more likely. Evidence often falls
short of proof, but that doesn't make it worthless
or not evidence.

Also the conclusion that some way is best may flow from
various sources, no one of which is conclusive.
Even taken collectively, the evidence from all
the sources may fall short of proof. Still
if all the evidence makes it a good bet that a way
is best, it's prudent to use that way--unless it hurts like
hell or it's disfunctional in your case.

Also the best way may not be much better than the
next best way. And there may be quite adequate
ways that aren't the best way.

I know I'm not telling you anything you don't know.

Lee Stanford · Post by **Lee Stanford** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:59 pm

michael c wrote:Maybe a good idea to learn to play with the toes with fingers too busy typing to hold a flute in any fashion.

I'm trying to incorporate it into a yoga posture. "Downward-Bending-Piper." I'll post a pic soon..

Namaste

Rob Sharer · Post by **Rob Sharer** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:58 pm

Dear Guiness:

I was being ironic. The only reason that I didn't put "empirical" in quotes is that there were already both quotation marks and parentheses in my sentence, and I didn't want to seem like even more of a prat than I already do. Love,

Rob

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:13 pm

I employ a variety of grips depending on the flute type.

One needs to be aware of the archetypal or model or template grip styles so that one can ADAPT those models to one's particular body and instrument at hand. This is what ergonomics is about - maximal comfort, efficiency and result.

If we don't have adaption as a key principle we end up with a cargo cult mentality with regard to the model grips
and
If we do not appreciate the model grips we are doomed to reinvent the wheel and suffer unnecessarily.

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:15 pm

tala baba is there an archetype for the gripless or must they resort to endless paralysis of analysis ? enquiring minds want to know....

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:44 pm

rama wrote:tala baba is there an archetype for the gripless or must they resort to endless paralysis of analysis ? enquiring minds want to know....

Actually yes.
If one is tensed up before one even grips a flute,
it is unlikely that the "bestness" of any "best grip"
will actualise.

The best yardstick for assessing the suitability of a grip
is being in a state of relaxed and comfortable efficiency
to begin with.

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:50 pm

ah.... i see
... say more....how then might "the gripless one" achieve a state of relaxed and comfortable efficiency?

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:52 pm

the gripless state cannot be gripped

rama · Post by **rama** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:58 pm

i think i can almost grasp that

Lee Stanford · Post by **Lee Stanford** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:07 pm

Anyone familiar with the philosopher Alan Watts? In one of his lectures he stated that the ego is more or less a muscular tension, and an unnecessary one. Imagine being on an airplane that was crashing down and clutching on your seatbelt straps for comfort.

(somehow, to me, this relates to all this)

I don't think any type of musician from any style of music from any culture could express him/herself if there was a feeling of discomfort before the instrument was ingaged.

I think we are a bunch of deep people who really want to talk about deeper things here. I think that using the "flute grip" as a medium is brilliant, and most especially becuase it wasn't intended so.

don't lock this, moderators, good things are happening here!

Lee Stanford · Post by **Lee Stanford** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:09 pm

talasiga wrote:the gripless state cannot be gripped

The grip that can be spoken about is not the true grip..."

talasiga · Post by **talasiga** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:13 pm

rama wrote:i think i can almost grasp that

Thinking is grasping
The thought free hold nothing
And behold everything

Lee Stanford · Post by **Lee Stanford** » Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:48 pm

The infant-child is still free form griping distinctions.

hydromel89 · Post by **hydromel89** » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:26 am

I know of two discerning beginners who manage pretty well with either way!

The first one uses the "normal grip" and his name is... Matt Molloy.
The second one uses the piper's grip and his name is... Michael McGoldrick.

Could someone here give them any tip or advice about holding their flute the right way so that they can be more efficient?